What do you believe in?

[Phat Max]

I'd be more inclined to respond if you had the verses for those points.. But without them, it's simply a flaming post.

Anyone believe Scientology? Seems like a scam to me, but I wouldn't mind be enlightened.

In my personal view, which is really worthless here but I'll give it anyway, I do think it's a scam.  But in a different way.  I think that it's REALLY a tax scam.  It was written by a guy who wanted to use religion as a guise to get tax breaks from the gov't and then vanish.

What do I know, really?  Just what makes sense to me based on what I've read of Scientology.  Still, if you're going to have a religious text, way to add aliens and spaceships and make it an exciting read!  XD

My thoughts exactly! Only in America...

[BlackJester]

Simply put, if you understand the central nervous system (CNS)

Well. We don't

Perhaps not completely, but how about the action of neurons and action potential?

I wouldn't go there as you will stop at quantum level where determinism dies horrible death. But more so because it's like claiming that you understand V12s because you have seen a screw.

So, nobody understands anything because of reductionist theory?  I've seen more than just a screw, I'm a Biomedical Engineer.  You don't have to know particle physics to understand that when you flick a switch, your light bulb turns on, but it helps.  By your argument nobody in the field of chemistry knows anything.  Nobody in the field of medicine knows anything because they don't completely understand the workings of the smallest parts of their field.

But I DO think that if free will exists at all, that it does live in the domain of quantum theory.  Mainly because that's one of the stones unturned by science.

Oh, and when I'm referring to determinism, I'm referring to a closed system that is strictly governed by rules, even those we may not understand.  I'm not saying (necessarily) that the universe is predictable by an omniscient observer. 

[Coffee Vampire]

If one is to get their morality from the bible, and homosexuality is sin. Then another group of sins, are also in the bible.

You should kill your neighbors for working on Sunday.

You should eradicate cities of non-believers.

You should kill your friends and family for not believing.

You should kill your children for talking back.

You should have slaves.

Now if you choose to pick and choose the morality of the bible, then you've committed a sin. The bible is the word of god. No where in the bible does it say "take these things a lessons/alagory/parabol". It is the word of god.

It's hypocritical to detest gays while not following the literal word of your god.

I find more often then not, people are disgusted by homosexual activity, and that is fine for you to be freaked out by it. But it's not ok to say its immoral, unnatural or should be outlawed.

I have one word for this post: misrepresentation.

Not hardly. I'll explain further.

Even from the start you say Christians think homosexuality is sin. That isn't true. Christians believe that homosexual practice is a sin, not being homosexual. Being homosexual is fine just like being inclined to steal. It's hard to resist temptations and different ones are harder than others. That's what we believe.

Lessons learned from the bible. Correct? My point is still valid, you're not not a believer.

And it never says in the Bible you should kill people for working on Sunday, etc.

How certain are we? Because I'll just source them later when I'm home. Leviticus 18:22 is the "thou shall not lay with another man", but the whole of Leviticus 18 has some pretty severe punishment for heterosexual crimes too. But non the less, we continue.

Instead of misrepresenting others' beliefs, why don't you stick to representing your own.

It's just convenient, isn't it?

First thing...what do you mean by "you're not not a believer"? You aren't making much sense in that regard.

Also: CONTEXT CONTEXT CONTEXT! Some of the Bible, such as laws in the old testement, do not apply. And since

a) this thread is for stating beliefs, not arguing over which is bestp
And
b) I am tired because I spent this pleasent morning throwing up

...I will definitely not argue over what in the Bible is relevant. That deserves an entire thread.

[Piotr]

I believe that free will exists in the same domain as fractals.

I.e. we may pretend we understand gravity interactions but that doesn't stop us from not having a clue where the third one is

[Dudecore]

I meant that youre not a believer. You don't follow the laws of the old testament everyday. The literal word of the creator of the universe. The god of Abraham would have a bone to pick with you.

And I concede anyway. I'll never be able to undo a millennia of Christian thinking, I'm just 1 person.

[BlackJester]

First thing...what do you mean by "you're not not a believer"? You aren't making much sense in that regard.

Also: CONTEXT CONTEXT CONTEXT! Some of the Bible, such as laws in the old testement, do not apply. And since

a) this thread is for stating beliefs, not arguing over which is bestp
And
b) I am tired because I spent this pleasent morning throwing up

...I will definitely not argue over what in the Bible is relevant. That deserves an entire thread.

I'm sorry to hear that you've been ill.  And I think you are right, this train is going towards flame-vile...

As I said, I am seriously considering starting a "No holds barred, MMA of theological/philosophical debate" type thread.  No cry-babies allowed.
Thoughts?

[Dudecore]

First thing...what do you mean by "you're not not a believer"? You aren't making much sense in that regard.

Also: CONTEXT CONTEXT CONTEXT! Some of the Bible, such as laws in the old testement, do not apply. And since

a) this thread is for stating beliefs, not arguing over which is bestp
And
b) I am tired because I spent this pleasent morning throwing up

...I will definitely not argue over what in the Bible is relevant. That deserves an entire thread.

I'm sorry to hear that you've been ill.  And I think you are right, this train is going towards flame-vile...

As I said, I am seriously considering starting a "No holds barred, MMA of theological/philosophical debate" type thread.  No cry-babies allowed.
Thoughts?

That'd be up my alley. I am a hard determinist, free will is an illusion. I'd like to get into it.

[Coffee Vampire]

I like the idea. But would it be on one subject or should people just start saying things? Lol

Well on second thought it will get to other topics no matter what.

[Phat Max]

I think we know where such a thread will lead. And I doubt any new friendships will foster afterwards.

[Coffee Vampire]

Well this community is mature enough to handle it, I think. We had a rather large abortion debate and nobody had any hard feelings after that.

[BlackJester]

I believe that free will exists in the same domain as fractals.

I.e. we may pretend we understand gravity interactions but that doesn't stop us from not having a clue where the third one is

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in Newtonian Physics we can very accurately describe what gravity does and measure it very precisely.  Even if we don't understand "How gravity works" we have a very good idea about "What gravity does".

[BlackJester]

Well this community is mature enough to handle it, I think. We had a rather large abortion debate and nobody had any hard feelings after that.

Agreed.  It's like Boxers don't hate each other after they step out of the ring. (maybe they do, I haven't asked every boxer in the world, it's just an analogy)

[BlackJester]

I think we know where such a thread will lead. And I doubt any new friendships will foster afterwards.

I argue with my friends about this stuff all the time.  There's no hard feelings, just good ol' debate.

[Dudecore]

Everyday neuroscience is learning something new about how our conscious brain works, and it's really amazing stuff.

[Xanzurth]

I meant that youre not a believer. You don't follow the laws of the old testament everyday. The literal word of the creator of the universe. The god of Abraham would have a bone to pick with you.

And I concede anyway. I'll never be able to undo a millennia of Christian thinking, I'm just 1 person.

OK, OK, OK gunslingers let's put the guns away and back away from the Homosexual corral.

For " bible thumpers" they jump right to the old testament to plead thier case. Well my friends since our Lord and Savior hit the scene most of the old testament became null and void. While He walked the earth Jesus stated to man love they neighbor and follow our Father's commandments. If he truly wanted us to still follow the old testament strictly he would have never saved the adulteress from being stoned. He wants use to love and respect one another and allow us to live our lives with out persecution.

Now for you homosexuality advocates. You have no right to the term marriage. It is a religious term adopted by the masses and used to refer to any union between consenting adults. Well it's not it describes a vow/ union between a man and a woman.
Now on that note everyone has the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Meaning that consenting adults should have the ability to civil union under the law (government). If they want to be happy/ unhappy legally together then more power to them. The first admendment allows for this to take place because of seperation of church and state and does not legally allow the law (government) to deny two people to have a legal union because of a single word.