What do you believe in?

[Jbombard51]

I have gay jeans.

[BlackJester]

In a person to person conversation I can make a case for how free will doesn't exist, and isn't compatible with human experience and everything we know about the central nervous system.

But not conducive for a message board that I type with my iPhone.

IKR!  The whole "Free will vs Determinism" thing has been on my mind since I was a pre-teen.  Simply put, if you understand the central nervous system (CNS) then the only way for us to have actual free will is literally psychokinesis, altering the physical world by thought alone.

I have gay jeans.

I've seen a lot of people wear those.  XD

[Piotr]

Simply put, if you understand the central nervous system (CNS)

Well. We don't

[Legion468]

So if someone hates the taste of oranges they can just chose to like them and they will and be happy about it? Because someone can choose their sexuality shouldn't it be that easy for other things to? Sure someone can pretend to like something but it won't give them happiness

[Coffee Vampire]

Since this is a thread a about what we believe, here's my stance on homosexuality:

It's one of the worst disabilities on earth. I say worst not because it is wrong to be born that way, but worst in the sense that it is the hardest to live that way.
I do not believe it is a sin to be gay, just as it is not a sin to have a natural inclination to say, poke people. Or steal. Or anything, really.
I do believe that it is a sin to act sexually immoral. This applies to gays and straights. Gays shouldn't engage in sexual immorality with other men, and straights shouldn't engage in sexual immorality with women.
Now here's where it gets tricky. I believe that God designed mankind in a set way, and homosexuality was not part of the perfect world be created. Frankly, I believe that he made men different from women because he wanted them to have a sexual union together.
He did not allow two males to reproduce with eachother. He did not design two females to reproduce with eachother.
I believe that a sexual union between a male and female is one of the most natural things in the world, and I believe that homosexuality is unnatural. It is without purpose.
Do I think gays should be allowed to be married? Well I am not sure yet. I am not admitting to completely understanding homosexuality and if it can be changed or not. I have heard stories of a lot of gaus changing, but I just don't know.

I have, like most people, a set of beliefs from which I base moral standards and conclusions off of. But yet, I do not have, like most people, all the answers.

[BlackJester]

Simply put, if you understand the central nervous system (CNS)

Well. We don't

Perhaps not completely, but how about the action of neurons and action potential?

[Phat Max]

From a Christian stand-point, it's not whether or not being homosexual is a choice or not... It exists either way.

The point is if a homosexual believes in Christianity, they would try to resist this desire, and pray that they would have the strength to remain faithful to what they believe.

They may never 'change', and they may fail sometimes, but that doesn't mean they accept it as 'alright'.

[JaCe BeLeReN]

From a Christian stand-point, it's not whether or not being homosexual is a choice or not... It exists either way.

The point is if a homosexual believes in Christianity, they would try to resist this desire, and pray that they would have the strength to remain faithful to what they believe.

They may never 'change', and they may fail sometimes, but that doesn't mean they accept it as 'alright'.

But what bothers me is that it is considered "wrong." why is it wrong?

[Phat Max]

If you believe Christianity to be true, then you accept that homosexuality is a condemnable action in the eyes of God.

Christianity also believes that all fall short of the glory of God: we all deserve Hell. Whether or not you're homosexual, you are still human.

[BlackJester]

I believe that a sexual union between a male and female is one of the most natural things in the world, and I believe that homosexuality is unnatural. It is without purpose.
Do I think gays should be allowed to be married?

A very lucid argument, thank you.

So, for homosexuality to be unnatural, we wouldn't find it in nature? Correct?  I've seen male dogs hump other male dogs.  Certain penguin species and I believe dolphins but I'm unsure, exhibit homosexual behavior.

Further, the proposition that the only purpose of sex is procreation and nothing of the feelings of intimacy and etc, suggests that any sexual act done without the purpose of procreation is wrong as well.  Oral sex, birth control would then all fall into the same category as gay sex for the sake of your argument, would it not?  For you are denying the only purpose for having sex, making babies.

To answer your question, I do think they should be allowed to be married.

[JaCe BeLeReN]

Since this is a thread a about what we believe, here's my stance on homosexuality:

It's one of the worst disabilities on earth. I say worst not because it is wrong to be born that way, but worst in the sense that it is the hardest to live that way.
I do not believe it is a sin to be gay, just as it is not a sin to have a natural inclination to say, poke people. Or steal. Or anything, really.
I do believe that it is a sin to act sexually immoral. This applies to gays and straights. Gays shouldn't engage in sexual immorality with other men, and straights shouldn't engage in sexual immorality with women.
Now here's where it gets tricky. I believe that God designed mankind in a set way, and homosexuality was not part of the perfect world be created. Frankly, I believe that he made men different from women because he wanted them to have a sexual union together.
He did not allow two males to reproduce with eachother. He did not design two females to reproduce with eachother.
I believe that a sexual union between a male and female is one of the most natural things in the world, and I believe that homosexuality is unnatural. It is without purpose.
Do I think gays should be allowed to be married?

Well I am not sure yet. I am not admitting to completely understanding homosexuality and if it can be changed or not. I have heard stories of a lot of gaus changing, but I just don't know.

I have, like most people, a set of beliefs from which I base moral standards and conclusions off of. But yet, I do not have, like most people, all the answers.

Moved JaCe's comment out of quote.
That wasn't my comment. I just accidentally quotes coffee's whole speech. I'll delete this in a moment.

[Phat Max]

For quite some time that was exactly the case, BJ.

Whether or not it's true doesn't matter, just because one person is slightly less 'sinful' than another doesn't make him a good person.

[BlackJester]

If you believe Christianity to be true, then you accept that homosexuality is a condemnable action in the eyes of God.

Christianity also believes that all fall short of the glory of God: we all deserve Hell. Whether or not you're homosexual, you are still human.

I would like to see a ruling on this one.  Text reference?  I read Genesis 18-19 and maybe I need to read further before and after, but I couldn't find explicit biblical references saying "don't put it in the pooper".  more or less.

[JaCe BeLeReN]

Do I think gays should be allowed to be married? Well I am not sure yet. I am not admitting to completely understanding homosexuality and if it can be changed or not. I have heard stories of a lot of gaus changing, but I just don't know.

But why should religious values affect everyone? In America, we haven't legalized "gay" marriage. Why not? Because we allow religion into the government and force that belief on other people. I think church should stay out of goverment, and stay out of people's sex lives. It's fine to speak your opinion, just don't try to legalize it.

[Coffee Vampire]

I believe that a sexual union between a male and female is one of the most natural things in the world, and I believe that homosexuality is unnatural. It is without purpose.
Do I think gays should be allowed to be married?

A very lucid argument, thank you.

So, for homosexuality to be unnatural, we wouldn't find it in nature? Correct?  I've seen male dogs hump other male dogs.  Certain penguin species and I believe dolphins but I'm unsure, exhibit homosexual behavior.

Further, the proposition that the only purpose of sex is procreation and nothing of the feelings of intimacy and etc, suggests that any sexual act done without the purpose of procreation is wrong as well.  Oral sex, birth control would then all fall into the same category as gay sex for the sake of your argument, would it not?  For you are denying the only purpose for having sex, making babies.

To answer your question, I do think they should be allowed to be married.

I've also seen dogs with diseases do very odd things. I am just pointing out that just because some things do certain things, does not mean it is natural.

I may be wrong that homosexuality is unnatural. Maybe it is God's world perfected. I am not always right. But still that isn't a very convincing argument for something being natural (just because some things do it).

Also, I never said that the only purpose of sex is to reproduce. That's silly. Sex feels good and that's a fact and people like it! I am just saying male and females seem to "work" much better with eachother than with their own kind. Thus seeming more natural. Just an observation.