Dropping from a draft.

[particle]

so a friend sent me an interesting reddit and i thought id share to get the communities feedback.
http://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/2tb7bm/how_does_it_work_if_you_actually_open_an_insane/

So the basic idea is, if you are drafting can you decide youd rather keep the product in your hands and in front of you or must you relinquish the product if you want to drop.
To get more specific, the person opened a fate reforged pack with two {monastery mentor}, one foil, and a {windswept heath}.

Now the overall rules conclusion is that at any point, you can drop and keep what's in front of you. Your store has the right to ban you, but officially, the dci cannot suspend you or anything.

So then comes the moral question? What is right in this situation? Should the store owner just sell this person a new pack and continue drafting? Should he be allowed to take what's in front of him and leave, and should he be banned from the store?
Pack mulligans seem very hard to generalize as there is no hard and fast rule for what is too much value.
Dropping also certainly hurts the tournament as now the card pool will be weaker and there will be 7 man left in an 8 man pod.

Thoughts? Should wizards lets people drop? Should they force store owners to sell replacement packs? Should they ignore this and just count money?
Let me know what you think!

And mods: this is magic related so please don't move this to other discussion board.

[the_intelligentleman]

The store owner should give the dude a hi five, and a new pack. Banning them for opening well is just dumb.

[particle]

The store owner should give the dude a hi five, and a new pack. Banning them for opening well is just dumb.

The store would be banning them for leaving with the cards, not for simply opening well.

[NovusOrbis]

The store would still make the money, someone would get a bye, and you'd be happy. I don't see why you would have to relinquish your cards or, to a totally extreme extent, be banned from the store.

[particle]

The store would still make the money, someone would get a bye, and you'd be happy. I don't see why you would have to relinquish your cards or, to a totally extreme extent, be banned from the store.

So the banning wouldnt happen if the store is selling you a replacement pack. They are obviously cool with it if their selling you a pack. They would potentially ban you if you just cracked the first pack and then grabbed the other two and walked out.

[NyghtHawk]

Keeping the pack would be a jerk move and probably grounds for banning or and least branding yourself as a jerk.

You draft, you play by the rules...picking up just because you opened well means you don't really care about the integrity of the game and shouldn't be allowed to play again without consequence. Not worth the couple dollars you would have made. Try to win and win cards the proper way.

[the_intelligentleman]

No I meant you keep the pack, but buy a new one. That's fair, and you get sweet pulls.

[NyghtHawk]

No I meant you keep the pack, but buy a new one. That's fair, and you get sweet pulls.

Actually it's not because that's not how draft works. Try to pull that and an actually tourney and you'd get banned.

[the_intelligentleman]

No I meant you keep the pack, but buy a new one. That's fair, and you get sweet pulls.

Actually it's not because that's not how draft works. Try to pull that and an actually tourney and you'd get banned.

I assumed we aren't talking about GP level competition here. They obviously won't let you do that there, but at FNM etc, it should be fine.

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

No I meant you keep the pack, but buy a new one. That's fair, and you get sweet pulls.

Actually it's not because that's not how draft works. Try to pull that and an actually tourney and you'd get banned.

I assumed we aren't talking about GP level competition here. They obviously won't let you do that there, but at FNM etc, it should be fine.

They actually do let you, I sat next to someone who opened a foil {Brimaz, King of Oreskos} at a GP (you catalog and pass the pool), and he just got up and left. You can always do it, no matter what level (okay, I don't know about Pro Tour level...)

While I do agree that it is an immoral thing to do, I can definitely understand if someone did it, and banning seems a little excessive. I can understand not letting them draft until the next draft format, but I think kicking someone out of a store completely is overkill.

[NyghtHawk]

You shouldn't be drafting if you don't want to play by the rules.

If you want to just keep cards you open, buy packs and do so.

[Ekann1]

The thing is you could take that to an extreme to get a bomb rare if there was very good prize payout (for example, or if you just really wanted a bomb rare lol). How would a store control these pack "mulligans"?

[rarehuntertay]

You could always just rare draft...

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

You shouldn't be drafting if you don't want to play by the rules.

If you want to just keep cards you open, buy packs and do so.

This is a quote from a Level 3 Judge:

"Nothing in the Tournament Rules or the IPG requires you to remain for the entire draft. The Tournament Rules explain what to do when a player is unwilling to continue drafting. Hint: it does not involve calling the police, confiscating their draft pool, or physically forcing them to remain.

As I said in the reddit thread on this same topic: even if you take the strictest possible interpretation of the bits on card ownership (which, as others have noted, are in a paragraph describing procedures for players bringing their own packs to draft with -- absolutely nowhere else will you find anything about card ownership), the cards the player has drafted belong to the player as of the moment they drop. You cannot force a player not to drop. The Tournament Rules do not forbid dropping during the drafting or deckbuilding portions of Limited events; in fact, we specifically have procedures (for Sealed and Draft) to handle this case.

Dropping without completing drafting is not Theft of Tournament Material. Dropping without completing pool registration and swap is not Theft of Tournament Material.

Anyone who claims it is, is wrong. Anyone who continues to argue after having the relevant sections of the IPG and Tournament Rules quoted to them (as has happened in this thread) is both wrong and dangerously stubborn.

When newer judges ask how to handle this situation -- aside from "well, call me if it ever actually happens in real life" -- the answer is invariably not to try to prevent the player from leaving, not to try to confiscate anything from the player, not to try to arrest or detain the player. This is sound common sense. If you don't want that player coming back to your store, then tell him not to come back. But you are unlikely to be happy with the results if you start trying to detain people and throwing around accusations of criminal conduct for someone who just opened awesome stuff and wants to drop and leave."

Despite anyone's opinion, and despite the douchey-ness of what you are doing, you are allowed to leave at any point of a draft and take your cards with you, it is totally legal.

You could always just rare draft...

I think the issue is opening an insane pack. For example, in Modern Masters draft, you could open {Tarmogoyf} and foil {Tarmogoyf}, and that is not a pack you would want to pass.

[particle]

So should wizards do anything?

Edit: by this I mean, should they encourage local stores to try to keep the player there by selling them another pack? Or just let them drop.