Reserved list

[MuggyWuggy]

Why can't people just pay 2 life? Why do you HAvE to have the volcanic island?

If you can't afford the BMW 7 series, you either don't get a BMW or you get a 3 series because you still wanna drive a BMW. So you wanna play legacy? Get the 3 series and eventually you can win the money (lands) for the 7 series (completed tier 1 Lego deck)

If this game was meant to have equal playing field then all legacy decks should be available at target for $20.

Okay, first of all, comparing cars is a TERRIBLE analogy. If it were only a matter of aesthetics that would be another matter. If you want a more accurate analogy, try this: if you want to join Nascar, but can't afford a racecar, a used Prius should be good enough.

As for the Target comment: bull. WotC is a company and it is in their best interest for cards to hold some value, but we all know WotC would never put Legacy decks into Target for $20. No one is asking for $20 decks, they are asking for an unreasonable policy that artificially inflates the values of format staples to be done away with.

You want to reprint but you don't want it that cheap but you want the staples to be affordable?

. Basically, you can have your 7 series, and I will be happy with my 3 series, but don't tell me "you can ride a bicycle in the Nascar race because it is close enough to a car."

But the steam vents is the 3 series
Volcanic island is the 7 series
Izzet guildgate is the bicycle

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

Why can't people just pay 2 life? Why do you HAvE to have the volcanic island?

If you can't afford the BMW 7 series, you either don't get a BMW or you get a 3 series because you still wanna drive a BMW. So you wanna play legacy? Get the 3 series and eventually you can win the money (lands) for the 7 series (completed tier 1 Lego deck)

If this game was meant to have equal playing field then all legacy decks should be available at target for $20.

Okay, first of all, comparing cars is a TERRIBLE analogy. If it were only a matter of aesthetics that would be another matter. If you want a more accurate analogy, try this: if you want to join Nascar, but can't afford a racecar, a used Prius should be good enough.

As for the Target comment: bull. WotC is a company and it is in their best interest for cards to hold some value, but we all know WotC would never put Legacy decks into Target for $20. No one is asking for $20 decks, they are asking for an unreasonable policy that artificially inflates the values of format staples to be done away with.

You want to reprint but you don't want it that cheap but you want the staples to be affordable?

. Basically, you can have your 7 series, and I will be happy with my 3 series, but don't tell me "you can ride a bicycle in the Nascar race because it is close enough to a car."

But the steam vents is the 3 series
Volcanic island is the 7 series
Izzet guildgate is the bicycle

Lol, when I say 7 series vs. 3 series, I am more referring to the pimpness or collectability of the card. For example, 7 series=Alpha {Tundra}, 3 Series=Legacy Masters {Tundra} with artwork that is literally just a picture of .poo.

[MuggyWuggy]

How much is foil poo worth?

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

How much is foil poo worth?

Actually, less than the normal ones. Not surprisingly, shiny .poo. isn't too popular.

[Rass]

Or suck it up and use steam vents and pay 2 life

Lol that sounds more like something taysby would say. So basically your saying (yes I am paraphrasing and putting words into your mouth) who ever has more money should get the advantages or don't play in our sandbox.

This is how it is now. You don't have to get out of the sandbox, just know our shovel is bigger than yours.😕

Lol. But my rebuttle is if that's what you need to make yourself feel better then good for you.

I only play casual so I don't care. I have access to a bunch of old cards. I'm just arguing for fun. Yes I collect (mostly sealed stuff) but I'm not counting on it keeping value (yes I'm hoping it dos increase) but I know I can have one hell of a draft in the future if I keep doing what I'm doing. (Yes spending time having fun is worth a decent amount of money)

[Rass]

Also if we are gonna do car comparisons. You have a fully loaded 93 BMW. I'll take the 2015 fully loaded BMW. They both cost about the same from the dealers packs were $3 but now $4. So your lands were 2 colors and untapped for the bells and whistles. My new one should be 3 colors untapped. Just saying as time goes by cars get better.

😛😛😛😛😛

You can keep that vintage one and look cool I'll take the new one with all the fun toys

[MuggyWuggy]

I dunno
If that's a BMW m3 stick from the late 80s or early 90s it's actually worth quite a bit still & much sexier to drive than a new 3 series

[Mr_Fahrenheit]

Why can't people just pay 2 life? Why do you HAvE to have the volcanic island?

If you can't afford the BMW 7 series, you either don't get a BMW or you get a 3 series because you still wanna drive a BMW. So you wanna play legacy? Get the 3 series and eventually you can win the money (lands) for the 7 series (completed tier 1 Lego deck)

If this game was meant to have equal playing field then all legacy decks should be available at target for $20.

Okay, first of all, comparing cars is a TERRIBLE analogy. If it were only a matter of aesthetics that would be another matter. If you want a more accurate analogy, try this: if you want to join Nascar, but can't afford a racecar, a used Prius should be good enough.

As for the Target comment: bull. WotC is a company and it is in their best interest for cards to hold some value, but we all know WotC would never put Legacy decks into Target for $20. No one is asking for $20 decks, they are asking for an unreasonable policy that artificially inflates the values of format staples to be done away with.

You want to reprint but you don't want it that cheap but you want the staples to be affordable?

I want a reprint, and I want the reprinted cards to be in a more affordable range ($40-100, depending on the card). I totally understand that cards can't be free or else people wouldn't buy boxes, but (a) there are fewer and fewer legacy/vintage staples every day and the format will eventually die and (b) I think the cheapest printing of a card being $300-$5000 is ridiculous. I would be perfectly fine if the ABUR dual lands never come down in price because it is a collector card, but I think there should be a cheaper printing of the card. Basically, you can have your 7 series, and I will be happy with my 3 series, but don't tell me "you can ride a bicycle in the Nascar race because it is close enough to a car."

You do realise that not only do wizards not control the secondary market, but they also dont make any money from it. Therefore they dont actually give a .poo. how much it costs someone to purchase a {tundra}. They really wanted to get behind modern, because it is a format that they can do a little bit to inject some more staples into circulation without going back on their promise. They have no such luxury with legacy. The whole point of the format is that, with the exception of a ban list, every set is legal. So they cant go messing with legalities. Which sucks for those of us that dont have those cards and want to get into legacy. But it is neither unfair nor bad business practices. It just is. Wizards doesnt owe us anything. The sooner oeople realise this the easier it will all be to accept.

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

Why can't people just pay 2 life? Why do you HAvE to have the volcanic island?

If you can't afford the BMW 7 series, you either don't get a BMW or you get a 3 series because you still wanna drive a BMW. So you wanna play legacy? Get the 3 series and eventually you can win the money (lands) for the 7 series (completed tier 1 Lego deck)

If this game was meant to have equal playing field then all legacy decks should be available at target for $20.

Okay, first of all, comparing cars is a TERRIBLE analogy. If it were only a matter of aesthetics that would be another matter. If you want a more accurate analogy, try this: if you want to join Nascar, but can't afford a racecar, a used Prius should be good enough.

As for the Target comment: bull. WotC is a company and it is in their best interest for cards to hold some value, but we all know WotC would never put Legacy decks into Target for $20. No one is asking for $20 decks, they are asking for an unreasonable policy that artificially inflates the values of format staples to be done away with.

You want to reprint but you don't want it that cheap but you want the staples to be affordable?

I want a reprint, and I want the reprinted cards to be in a more affordable range ($40-100, depending on the card). I totally understand that cards can't be free or else people wouldn't buy boxes, but (a) there are fewer and fewer legacy/vintage staples every day and the format will eventually die and (b) I think the cheapest printing of a card being $300-$5000 is ridiculous. I would be perfectly fine if the ABUR dual lands never come down in price because it is a collector card, but I think there should be a cheaper printing of the card. Basically, you can have your 7 series, and I will be happy with my 3 series, but don't tell me "you can ride a bicycle in the Nascar race because it is close enough to a car."

You do realise that not only do wizards not control the secondary market, but they also dont make any money from it. Therefore they dont actually give a .poo. how much it costs someone to purchase a {tundra}. They really wanted to get behind modern, because it is a format that they can do a little bit to inject some more staples into circulation without going back on their promise. They have no such luxury with legacy. The whole point of the format is that, with the exception of a ban list, every set is legal. So they cant go messing with legalities. Which sucks for those of us that dont have those cards and want to get into legacy. But it is neither unfair nor bad business practices. It just is. Wizards doesnt owe us anything. The sooner oeople realise this the easier it will all be to accept.

You do realize that by abolishing the Reserved List, Wizards could make an absurd amount of money reprinting Legacy staples and they do care about the secondary market, because if people get pissed and stop playing because of high prices, they lose money. In the end, you are wrong, it is not us thinking Wizards owes us something, breaking the Reserved List is good for WotC and the majority of the players, but they can't do it because some people think WotC owes them something (through the Reserved List).

[Mr_Fahrenheit]

Why can't people just pay 2 life? Why do you HAvE to have the volcanic island?

If you can't afford the BMW 7 series, you either don't get a BMW or you get a 3 series because you still wanna drive a BMW. So you wanna play legacy? Get the 3 series and eventually you can win the money (lands) for the 7 series (completed tier 1 Lego deck)

If this game was meant to have equal playing field then all legacy decks should be available at target for $20.

Okay, first of all, comparing cars is a TERRIBLE analogy. If it were only a matter of aesthetics that would be another matter. If you want a more accurate analogy, try this: if you want to join Nascar, but can't afford a racecar, a used Prius should be good enough.

As for the Target comment: bull. WotC is a company and it is in their best interest for cards to hold some value, but we all know WotC would never put Legacy decks into Target for $20. No one is asking for $20 decks, they are asking for an unreasonable policy that artificially inflates the values of format staples to be done away with.

You want to reprint but you don't want it that cheap but you want the staples to be affordable?

I want a reprint, and I want the reprinted cards to be in a more affordable range ($40-100, depending on the card). I totally understand that cards can't be free or else people wouldn't buy boxes, but (a) there are fewer and fewer legacy/vintage staples every day and the format will eventually die and (b) I think the cheapest printing of a card being $300-$5000 is ridiculous. I would be perfectly fine if the ABUR dual lands never come down in price because it is a collector card, but I think there should be a cheaper printing of the card. Basically, you can have your 7 series, and I will be happy with my 3 series, but don't tell me "you can ride a bicycle in the Nascar race because it is close enough to a car."

You do realise that not only do wizards not control the secondary market, but they also dont make any money from it. Therefore they dont actually give a .poo. how much it costs someone to purchase a {tundra}. They really wanted to get behind modern, because it is a format that they can do a little bit to inject some more staples into circulation without going back on their promise. They have no such luxury with legacy. The whole point of the format is that, with the exception of a ban list, every set is legal. So they cant go messing with legalities. Which sucks for those of us that dont have those cards and want to get into legacy. But it is neither unfair nor bad business practices. It just is. Wizards doesnt owe us anything. The sooner oeople realise this the easier it will all be to accept.

You do realize that by abolishing the Reserved List, Wizards could make an absurd amount of money reprinting Legacy staples and they do care about the secondary market, because if people get pissed and stop playing because of high prices, they lose money. In the end, you are wrong, it is not us thinking Wizards owes us something, breaking the Reserved List is good for WotC and the majority of the players, but they can't do it because some people think WotC owes them something (through the Reserved List).

That makes no sense. I dont mind people disagreeing with me, but simply saying 'you are wrong because abolishing the reserve list is good for wizards and people think they owe them something' is hardly overwhelming evidence. In fact, there is no actual evidence or facts in that statement at all. On the other hand, limited and standard are where wizards makes the majority of their money, as they are at an all time high at the moment (and that is actually supported by evidence, namely sales of packs and the popularity of the standard and limited events compared to years past).

I actually like constructive criticism, as i can learn something from it. What i dont like is being told that im wrong, while looking like the only reason is that your personal opinion is different. So if you are going to simply tell me that im wrong, i wont be paying any attention.

[griffin131]

I'm not going to commit to spending 300 on a volcanic island if it'll just be reprinted and have a value plummet.

Lots of people don't even play legacy/vintage when it's affordable. (See mtgo)

Don't throw a hissy fit if something isn't immediately in your budget that isn't actually played that much.

I bought my duals on the expectation that if I need the money I can sell them and get my money back. It wasn't an investment, I just expect to not lose $1000+ overnight.

It's not an investment, I just don't want to lose the money I spent.
Which means it's exactly an investment.

Why do you buy a car with a high re-sale value?

An investment is trying to make money, which I'm not

Because you want to feel good about yourself.

Caring about resale value only matters if you're going to sell. If you're never going to sell, the resale value is absolutely irrelevant. It'll never come into play. You could literally burn your cards and there'd be no difference to your wallet.

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

Why can't people just pay 2 life? Why do you HAvE to have the volcanic island?

If you can't afford the BMW 7 series, you either don't get a BMW or you get a 3 series because you still wanna drive a BMW. So you wanna play legacy? Get the 3 series and eventually you can win the money (lands) for the 7 series (completed tier 1 Lego deck)

If this game was meant to have equal playing field then all legacy decks should be available at target for $20.

Okay, first of all, comparing cars is a TERRIBLE analogy. If it were only a matter of aesthetics that would be another matter. If you want a more accurate analogy, try this: if you want to join Nascar, but can't afford a racecar, a used Prius should be good enough.

As for the Target comment: bull. WotC is a company and it is in their best interest for cards to hold some value, but we all know WotC would never put Legacy decks into Target for $20. No one is asking for $20 decks, they are asking for an unreasonable policy that artificially inflates the values of format staples to be done away with.

You want to reprint but you don't want it that cheap but you want the staples to be affordable?

I want a reprint, and I want the reprinted cards to be in a more affordable range ($40-100, depending on the card). I totally understand that cards can't be free or else people wouldn't buy boxes, but (a) there are fewer and fewer legacy/vintage staples every day and the format will eventually die and (b) I think the cheapest printing of a card being $300-$5000 is ridiculous. I would be perfectly fine if the ABUR dual lands never come down in price because it is a collector card, but I think there should be a cheaper printing of the card. Basically, you can have your 7 series, and I will be happy with my 3 series, but don't tell me "you can ride a bicycle in the Nascar race because it is close enough to a car."

You do realise that not only do wizards not control the secondary market, but they also dont make any money from it. Therefore they dont actually give a .poo. how much it costs someone to purchase a {tundra}. They really wanted to get behind modern, because it is a format that they can do a little bit to inject some more staples into circulation without going back on their promise. They have no such luxury with legacy. The whole point of the format is that, with the exception of a ban list, every set is legal. So they cant go messing with legalities. Which sucks for those of us that dont have those cards and want to get into legacy. But it is neither unfair nor bad business practices. It just is. Wizards doesnt owe us anything. The sooner oeople realise this the easier it will all be to accept.

You do realize that by abolishing the Reserved List, Wizards could make an absurd amount of money reprinting Legacy staples and they do care about the secondary market, because if people get pissed and stop playing because of high prices, they lose money. In the end, you are wrong, it is not us thinking Wizards owes us something, breaking the Reserved List is good for WotC and the majority of the players, but they can't do it because some people think WotC owes them something (through the Reserved List).

That makes no sense. I dont mind people disagreeing with me, but simply saying 'you are wrong because abolishing the reserve list is good for wizards and people think they owe them something' is hardly overwhelming evidence. In fact, there is no actual evidence or facts in that statement at all. On the other hand, limited and standard are at an all time high at the moment (and that is actually supported by evidence, namely sales of packs and the popularity of the standard and limited events compared to years past).

I actually like constructive criticism, as i can learn something from it. What i dont like is being told that im wrong, while looking like the only reason is that your personal opinion is different. So if you are going to simply tell me that im wrong, i wont be paying any attention.

I told you you're wrong, and told you why, didn't you read the post? Wizards doesn't really make too much off of legacy and vintage currently, and they stand to make an absurd amount by reprinting cards on the reserved list (imagine Modern Masters, but with dual lands and {Force of Will}....). In the end, a few people that really weren't making WotC too much money might get mad, cards would retain a large amount of value because of their collectability, legacy and vintage would boom, and 95% of the player base would be happy. How I am not using reasoning? It does make a lot of sense: WotC=happy because much money, people without RL cards=happy to get cards, people with cards on the RL=probably unhappy, but after legacy and vintage boom their cards end up being worth more than before. This really is either a win/win/lose or a win/win/win. You claimed, "Wizards doesnt owe us anything," and I agree with you, but your application is incorrect. People expect WotC to reprint Reserved List cards because it makes them money and it makes players happy, but some people with RL cards are claiming that Wizards owes them something because of the Reserved List. So, in conclusion, you are wrong because abolishing the Reserved List and responsibly reprinting the cards ends up making everyone happy except for those who are butthurt because a promise was broken (but to be fair, depending on how the cards are reprinted, RL cards stand to sky rocket just like Modern Masters made higher end modern cards rocket). I'm sorry if you weren't able to glean that from my post, but this is what it meant.

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

I'm not going to commit to spending 300 on a volcanic island if it'll just be reprinted and have a value plummet.

Lots of people don't even play legacy/vintage when it's affordable. (See mtgo)

Don't throw a hissy fit if something isn't immediately in your budget that isn't actually played that much.

I bought my duals on the expectation that if I need the money I can sell them and get my money back. It wasn't an investment, I just expect to not lose $1000+ overnight.

It's not an investment, I just don't want to lose the money I spent.
Which means it's exactly an investment.

Why do you buy a car with a high re-sale value?

An investment is trying to make money, which I'm not

Because you want to feel good about yourself.

Caring about resale value only matters if you're going to sell. If you're never going to sell, the resale value is absolutely irrelevant. It'll never come into play. You could literally burn your cards and there'd be no difference to your wallet.

Lol, Taysby, you picked like the worst analogy ever. The reason you buy a car with a low resale value is to drive it. Just like how people buy cards to play with them.... (you know, the whole point of the game...)

[Mr_Fahrenheit]

Why can't people just pay 2 life? Why do you HAvE to have the volcanic island?

If you can't afford the BMW 7 series, you either don't get a BMW or you get a 3 series because you still wanna drive a BMW. So you wanna play legacy? Get the 3 series and eventually you can win the money (lands) for the 7 series (completed tier 1 Lego deck)

If this game was meant to have equal playing field then all legacy decks should be available at target for $20.

Okay, first of all, comparing cars is a TERRIBLE analogy. If it were only a matter of aesthetics that would be another matter. If you want a more accurate analogy, try this: if you want to join Nascar, but can't afford a racecar, a used Prius should be good enough.

As for the Target comment: bull. WotC is a company and it is in their best interest for cards to hold some value, but we all know WotC would never put Legacy decks into Target for $20. No one is asking for $20 decks, they are asking for an unreasonable policy that artificially inflates the values of format staples to be done away with.

You want to reprint but you don't want it that cheap but you want the staples to be affordable?

I want a reprint, and I want the reprinted cards to be in a more affordable range ($40-100, depending on the card). I totally understand that cards can't be free or else people wouldn't buy boxes, but (a) there are fewer and fewer legacy/vintage staples every day and the format will eventually die and (b) I think the cheapest printing of a card being $300-$5000 is ridiculous. I would be perfectly fine if the ABUR dual lands never come down in price because it is a collector card, but I think there should be a cheaper printing of the card. Basically, you can have your 7 series, and I will be happy with my 3 series, but don't tell me "you can ride a bicycle in the Nascar race because it is close enough to a car."

You do realise that not only do wizards not control the secondary market, but they also dont make any money from it. Therefore they dont actually give a .poo. how much it costs someone to purchase a {tundra}. They really wanted to get behind modern, because it is a format that they can do a little bit to inject some more staples into circulation without going back on their promise. They have no such luxury with legacy. The whole point of the format is that, with the exception of a ban list, every set is legal. So they cant go messing with legalities. Which sucks for those of us that dont have those cards and want to get into legacy. But it is neither unfair nor bad business practices. It just is. Wizards doesnt owe us anything. The sooner oeople realise this the easier it will all be to accept.

You do realize that by abolishing the Reserved List, Wizards could make an absurd amount of money reprinting Legacy staples and they do care about the secondary market, because if people get pissed and stop playing because of high prices, they lose money. In the end, you are wrong, it is not us thinking Wizards owes us something, breaking the Reserved List is good for WotC and the majority of the players, but they can't do it because some people think WotC owes them something (through the Reserved List).

That makes no sense. I dont mind people disagreeing with me, but simply saying 'you are wrong because abolishing the reserve list is good for wizards and people think they owe them something' is hardly overwhelming evidence. In fact, there is no actual evidence or facts in that statement at all. On the other hand, limited and standard are at an all time high at the moment (and that is actually supported by evidence, namely sales of packs and the popularity of the standard and limited events compared to years past).

I actually like constructive criticism, as i can learn something from it. What i dont like is being told that im wrong, while looking like the only reason is that your personal opinion is different. So if you are going to simply tell me that im wrong, i wont be paying any attention.

I told you you're wrong, and told you why, didn't you read the post? Wizards doesn't really make too much off of legacy and vintage currently, and they stand to make an absurd amount by reprinting cards on the reserved list (imagine Modern Masters, but with dual lands and {Force of Will}....). In the end, a few people that really weren't making WotC too much money might get mad, cards would retain a large amount of value because of their collectability, legacy and vintage would boom, and 95% of the player base would be happy. How I am not using reasoning? It does make a lot of sense: WotC=happy because much money, people without RL cards=happy to get cards, people with cards on the RL=probably unhappy, but after legacy and vintage boom their cards end up being worth more than before. This really is either a win/win/lose or a win/win/win. You claimed, "Wizards doesnt owe us anything," and I agree with you, but your application is incorrect. People expect WotC to reprint Reserved List cards because it makes them money and it makes players happy, but some people with RL cards are claiming that Wizards owes them something because of the Reserved List. So, in conclusion, you are wrong because abolishing the Reserved List and responsibly reprinting the cards ends up making everyone happy except for those who are butthurt because a promise was broken (but to be fair, depending on how the cards are reprinted, RL cards stand to sky rocket just like Modern Masters made higher end modern cards rocket). I'm sorry if you weren't able to glean that from my post, but this is what it meant.

My point was (summarised):

* wizards makes no money from the secondary market, and therfore how much a tundra costs doesnt currently feature in their business model

*they injected some staples into modern, because they wanted to, and could do so without breaking their promise

* they promised to never reprint the reserve list, and they do not 'owe it' to players to rerprint anything

*standard and limited are booming right now, and that is where they make all their money

And i also said that it is my opinion that those cards will never be reprinted, and we have no right to be mad about that

You told me that i am simply wrong, because wizards could easily make loads more money by sacrificing their reputation and making a lot of players happy while only making a few unhappy. Now while you supplied no actual evidence to support your statements, just opinion, i agree with you. What i was saying that by you saying that im wrong, and then going off on a tangent, is not cool.

[Rass]

Didn't wotc already reprint something or things off the reserved list?

Also with all the influx of people how many of them really care about the reserved list? With it booming right now wouldn't it be the time to try to get them into another type of play?