Monday, August 25th

[MuggyWuggy]

Well you did get a reprint with the CE

[Dudecore]

The reason to break the promise is simple, the pros greatly outweigh the cons. The cons are few: some people will get upset, they broke a promise, and no one will ever trust them again (which I still say isn't legit). The pros are numerous: they can use Legacy and Vintage as a Pro Tour format (currently they can't because some countries don't have the cards, or at least that is the excuse), more players can play these formats; with new players, the formats will become more popular which is good for those currently playing it; Wizards stands to make a ridiculous amount of money, players with staples not reprinted (say {Counterbalance} or {Terminus} don't get reprints or something) see a rocketing in the value of their collection, it will give Wizards more freedom (for example, they currently can't print a 2/2 with flying and first strike for {2}{W} because it is on the reserved list), and it pleases the overwhelming majority (at least 90%) of the consumers. Honestly, I am surprised Hasbro hasn't forced them to drop it by now....

So if I made a promise to trade you cards, and but then someone else wanted them, your end is in the mail. It would be OK in your opinion to not trade those cards? It would benefit me and the other person. What if those cards skyrocketed in value for no reason, it would benefit me to not trade them. Would it help me to be known as someone who does not keep their promise? What if I had another trade and promised not to do the same?

If a 2/2 flying first strike is what the game is missing, then I don't want to play this game anymore. Design has been successfully working around not printing that card for years, and will continue.

Again, we all know the reasons why it's a good idea not to make another reserve list. Pleasing 90% of the people (an exaggerated estimate, an actual survey would have to be conducted) is not a good reason to go back on a promise. Even if it benefits Wizards. Truth be told, if they do abandon the reserve list, and go back on the promise for monetary gain - that would be a clear indication of a dishonest money grab.

And to be honest, if magic were designed today - they'd never make the dual lands. Playing multiple colors is supposed to have a drawback. Having basic land types and coming in untapped is not the philosophy the game going for, but that is for another time

Maybe I'm crazy, but I think promises have to mean something.

[Mattao19]

What Dude said^ I agree (and so does MaRo) it's a promise that WotC doesn't want to break

[griffin131]

No, actually no one is asking for an Unlimited. The thing is: everything is stacked up against the Reserved List, Wizards hates it, players hate it, it's causing Legacy and Vintage to suffer, and the only argument for it is "they can't break a promise" and yet no one cries about not giving Unlimited an unlimited printing. People who are arguing for the Reserved List are hypocrites on the highest level. Now to follow that, I realize that people have thousands of dollars invested in them, and I don't want that money to disappear, that is why I think we should have a "Legacy Masters" that increases the supply, but at an MSRP that keeps prices reasonably high.

So how am I a hypocrit, exactly?  I was furious with Garfield Games way back when - I traded some moxes with the understanding I would be able to get more... And then I couldn't. I got over it because it's for the health of the game.

You keep acting like Legacy and Vintage are all that matters - I'd bet there'd be a slight increase in player base and a huge drop in card value.

[Dudecore]

How come no one ever says they should ban the ABUR lands to preserve the health of Legacy? They'd sooner hope Wizards tanks their reputation on a cheesy cash grab. Want to make sure Legacy lives on? Ban ABUR lands, so that decks can be less greedy with their manabase and more people can play. Problem solved.

[griffin131]

How come no one ever says they should ban the ABUR lands to preserve the health of Legacy? They'd sooner hope Wizards tanks their reputation on a cheesy cash grab. Want to make sure Legacy lives on? Ban ABUR lands, so that decks can be less greedy with their manabase and more people can play. Problem solved.

This. Players rejoice because they don't have to spend a lot on lands, collectors don't care because they're collectors.

Win/win.

[Dudecore]

They're still be scarce. They'll still be collectible. Plummet is a bit of a stretch, but resale will probably go down for sure. Wizards never promised not to ban them from Legacy. I say it will achieve the desired effect. Wizards keeps their promise, collectors probably lose money, and people don't play Legacy anymore because they can't use powerful cards (like the ABUR lands). *Shrug*

[griffin131]

Ban them from Legacy (which is what most of the complaining people want) and the value will still be there for Vintage.

[Dudecore]

Ban them from Legacy (which is what most of the complaining people want) and the value will still be there for Vintage.

So we can start complaining about the barrier of entry to Vintage being too high and how wizards is killing the format? Yeesh. It's almost like Wizards cannot win here.

[MuggyWuggy]

BRING BACK ANTE! People will stop worrying about valuable cards in their decks and start winning with janky combos

[Kaworu, the Fifth Child]

BRING BACK ANTE! People will stop worrying about valuable cards in their decks and start winning with janky combos

He'll yeah

[Kaworu, the Fifth Child]

BRING BACK ANTE! People will stop worrying about valuable cards in their decks and start winning with janky combos

He'll yeah

We'll we'll we'll if it isn't autocorrect

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

How come no one ever says they should ban the ABUR lands to preserve the health of Legacy? They'd sooner hope Wizards tanks their reputation on a cheesy cash grab. Want to make sure Legacy lives on? Ban ABUR lands, so that decks can be less greedy with their manabase and more people can play. Problem solved.

That also an option, but I feel that woud upset too many people.

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

Ban them from Legacy (which is what most of the complaining people want) and the value will still be there for Vintage.

So we can start complaining about the barrier of entry to Vintage being too high and how wizards is killing the format? Yeesh. It's almost like Wizards cannot win here.

Lol, its a format with Power Nine, the barrier to entry is high that I think people have just given up on it. Are there any tournaments (like 100 people or so) for paper Vintage?

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

No, actually no one is asking for an Unlimited. The thing is: everything is stacked up against the Reserved List, Wizards hates it, players hate it, it's causing Legacy and Vintage to suffer, and the only argument for it is "they can't break a promise" and yet no one cries about not giving Unlimited an unlimited printing. People who are arguing for the Reserved List are hypocrites on the highest level. Now to follow that, I realize that people have thousands of dollars invested in them, and I don't want that money to disappear, that is why I think we should have a "Legacy Masters" that increases the supply, but at an MSRP that keeps prices reasonably high.

So how am I a hypocrit, exactly?  I was furious with Garfield Games way back when - I traded some moxes with the understanding I would be able to get more... And then I couldn't. I got over it because it's for the health of the game.

So its okay that Wizards broke the promise for the health of the game? Why cant they break the promise for the health of legacy? Players quit ever day, the barrier to entery for legacy is rising everyday, and duals stop existing everyday because they thrown away, lost in fire, etc. The point is, legacy is not sustainable, it will die, its only a matter of time.