Monday, August 25th

[MuggyWuggy]

I'm mainly speaking about the OG dual lands

[MuggyWuggy]

Believe me I would love. Juzam djinn reprint

[rarehuntertay]

Believe me I would love. Juzam djinn reprint

I would love that too... unfortunately, it's on the reserved list

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

These are cards that are over 20 years old, breaking a 20 year old promise??? They want people to buy standard, they know their limited sets will normally sell out.

Actually, by not printing the dual lands RIGHT NOW they are "breaking a promise" older than the Reserved List. After Alpha and Beta sold out, they made the white bordered "Unlimited" was supposed to be of "Unlimited supply". That was supposed to be Magic, just those three sets. They then decided that was the dumbest thing ever and that they could make more money if them printed new sets. So it's okay that they break some promises, as long as they keep the ones that are good for people with ABUR duals? This is the number one reason the "keep the Reserved List" argument has absolutely no legs.

[MuggyWuggy]

What about the argument of: you could play MTGO for that experience?

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

What about the argument of: you could play MTGO for that experience?

Can't play in tournaments. All professional Magic is paper.

[rarehuntertay]

Believe me I would love. Juzam djinn reprint

That's the one card i'm considering not putting in my power cube.  5/5 flyer for 2?  really??...  I'd be glad if all of a sudden it never existed...

you must be thinking of something else... Juzam is a 5/5 for 2BB that deals 1 point of damage to you during upkeep.
{Juzám Djinn}

[blackychan1]

He's not confused. People used to think that it was only {B}{B}, due to the {2} being hardly visible.

[blackychan1]

These are cards that are over 20 years old, breaking a 20 year old promise??? They want people to buy standard, they know their limited sets will normally sell out.

Actually, by not printing the dual lands RIGHT NOW they are "breaking a promise" older than the Reserved List. After Alpha and Beta sold out, they made the white bordered "Unlimited" was supposed to be of "Unlimited supply". That was supposed to be Magic, just those three sets. They then decided that was the dumbest thing ever and that they could make more money if them printed new sets. So it's okay that they break some promises, as long as they keep the ones that are good for people with ABUR duals? This is the number one reason the "keep the Reserved List" argument has absolutely no legs.

Their breaking one promise does not mean that another should not be kept. The inverse of what you are saying I also true.
   It's okay for them to break some promises, as long as they keep the ones that give you dual lands.

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

These are cards that are over 20 years old, breaking a 20 year old promise??? They want people to buy standard, they know their limited sets will normally sell out.

Actually, by not printing the dual lands RIGHT NOW they are "breaking a promise" older than the Reserved List. After Alpha and Beta sold out, they made the white bordered "Unlimited" was supposed to be of "Unlimited supply". That was supposed to be Magic, just those three sets. They then decided that was the dumbest thing ever and that they could make more money if them printed new sets. So it's okay that they break some promises, as long as they keep the ones that are good for people with ABUR duals? This is the number one reason the "keep the Reserved List" argument has absolutely no legs.

Their breaking one promise does not mean that another should not be kept. The inverse of what you are saying I also true.
   It's okay for them to break some promises, as long as they keep the ones that give you dual lands.

No, actually no one is asking for an Unlimited. The thing is: everything is stacked up against the Reserved List, Wizards hates it, players hate it, it's causing Legacy and Vintage to suffer, and the only argument for it is "they can't break a promise" and yet no one cries about not giving Unlimited an unlimited printing. People who are arguing for the Reserved List are hypocrites on the highest level. Now to follow that, I realize that people have thousands of dollars invested in them, and I don't want that money to disappear, that is why I think we should have a "Legacy Masters" that increases the supply, but at an MSRP that keeps prices reasonably high.

[Dudecore]

Who said unlimited edition was supposed to be an unlimited print run?

Also, the reserve list isn't good for people wIth ABUR lands. Increasing prices fuel counterfeit cards (they mostly counterfeit {Tarmogoyf}, not on the reserve list). Reprinting them probably wouldn't hurt the value if it was done correctly. Still not a reason to break a promise. Would more people play Legacy? Yes. Still not a reason to break a promise. I personally would love to have a full set of them. The reserve list isn't good for players. I personally do not like it. That being said, my argument is the same it has been this whole time: they made a promise.

You keep saying we're "clinging" to an argument, but I would like to hear your reasoning for why you think it is OK to break a promise or commitment you've made to someone. We all know the reasons why they should never make another reserve list. There reason for making the first list was reactionary, short sighted and ill-advised, that much is true. Still doesn't mean you can take it back now and say "I meant to do something else"

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

The reason to break the promise is simple, the pros greatly outweigh the cons. The cons are few: some people will get upset, they broke a promise, and no one will ever trust them again (which I still say isn't legit). The pros are numerous: they can use Legacy and Vintage as a Pro Tour format (currently they can't because some countries don't have the cards, or at least that is the excuse), more players can play these formats; with new players, the formats will become more popular which is good for those currently playing it; Wizards stands to make a ridiculous amount of money, players with staples not reprinted (say {Counterbalance} or {Terminus} don't get reprints or something) see a rocketing in the value of their collection, it will give Wizards more freedom (for example, they currently can't print a 2/2 with flying and first strike for {2}{W} because it is on the reserved list), and it pleases the overwhelming majority (at least 90%) of the consumers. Honestly, I am surprised Hasbro hasn't forced them to drop it by now....

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

Who said unlimited edition was supposed to be an unlimited print run?

LSV did on the Magic Show, I assumed if he was wrong they would have corrected him. I will try to find the link.
Here is the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrbsjihikmM
About 25:20

Edit: it was the host of the Magic Show, not LSV but still.

[Dudecore]

Who said unlimited edition was supposed to be an unlimited print run?

LSV did on the Magic Show, I assumed if he was wrong they would have corrected him. I will try to find the link.

Did you ask Mark Rosewater? http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/95944102408/so-unlimited-was-originally-going-to-be-of-unlimited

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

Who said unlimited edition was supposed to be an unlimited print run?

LSV did on the Magic Show, I assumed if he was wrong they would have corrected him. I will try to find the link.

Did you ask Mark Rosewater? http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/95944102408/so-unlimited-was-originally-going-to-be-of-unlimited

I did, but he wasn't working at that point. I found the clip where the host of Magic show says it, it is above.

Edit: I also looked for announcements online, but they don't have anything from back then online, that was back when it was Garfield Games doing it. I wonder if we can find a definitive answer?