Well

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

I'm against government forcing me to buy a product I don't want nor need.

To be fair, you don't have to buy anything. No one is forcing you to stay within the country. Also, you have the option to simply pay the fine.

Also: see the above post, I only posted the article here, because you would need a Time Subscription to access it through a link. I am sorry, next time I will put such things in a Google Doc and link that to here.

[MuggyWuggy]

The fine is not much for the first few years of this program, but eventually becomes monstrous.

Still forcing people pay for things, whether or not they want them.

The idea of getting fined X % of your income and then not getting eligible for any coverage is kinda absurd too...

I just don't understand why it always has to come on the back of the people always.

[Rass]

The article is just a little long...

Could have posted a link but people probably wouldn't have clicked it

No, you would have to have a subscription to Time in order to read the article, otherwise I would have put the link

Ok thank you then.

[cltrn81]

As for the post office, I'll do some research to find links.

Here's a .gov site

http://www.carper.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/postal-reform-myths-vs-facts

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

And since when has healthcare become a need?  Up until 19whenever it was, there was no such thing as health insurance.  People survived without it.  And forcing me to pay for someone who chose to smoke and then receive healthcare for it is stupid.

As for the post office, I'll do some research to find links.

It is necessary because health insurance allows people to receive healthcare which in turn allows Americans to survive longer and happier lives. Also, we would be paying for these people to receive health insurance anyways (through Medicare and the taxpayers pay for anyone who receives emergency healthcare services and can't pay for them), but this system allows the entire American public to act as a union of sorts, and use collective bargaining against the healthcare industry. If you had read the article, you would understand this concept. And to you "19whatever it was" remark I present this:

[Distriimuir]

The point is the gov shouldn't force us to pay for a service if we don't want it.

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

The point is the gov shouldn't force us to pay for a service if we don't want it.

Sometimes a few people have to sacrifice their wants to the majority, or for the good of the majority. Using your reasoning, I should be paid all of the money I put into taxes during our excursions into the Middle East. I don't support the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, yet I still pay for the military. You can't always get want you want.

Edit: I will take mercy on you all, and post this paragraph from the Wikipedia page for the act: "The ACA was enacted with the goals of increasing the quality and affordability of health insurance, lowering the uninsured rate by expanding public and private insurance coverage, and reducing the costs of healthcare for individuals and the government. It introduced a number of mechanisms—including mandates, subsidies, and insurance exchanges—meant to increase coverage and affordability.[6][7] The law also requires insurance companies to cover all applicants within new minimum standards and offer the same rates regardless of pre-existing conditions or sex.[8] Additional reforms aimed to reduce costs and improve healthcare outcomes by shifting the system towards quality over quantity through increased competition, regulation, and incentives to streamline the delivery of healthcare. The Congressional Budget Office projected that the ACA will lower both future deficits[9] and Medicare spending.[10]"

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Affordable_Care_Act

[Distriimuir]

Your right, it is wrong for them to use your taxes in ways you don't want the money spent. Any form if taxing is wrong, if I wanna help or take advantage of a service I will pay for it. If not then I won't, and it's wrong to force me.

[Rass]

The point is the gov shouldn't force us to pay for a service if we don't want it.

But you still do. Random person doesn't have insurance. He cuts himself. No big deal.  Two weeks later it's infected and really messing with him. The infection gets worse he goes to the emergency room. It looks like it could be life threatening so they have to take him.  The emergency room fixes him up and sends him a bill. He ignores it knowing there is not much that can be done to him. You can really get anything from someone who has nothing. So now they waste more time and money with collections and the such.

So now something that could have been fixed with an inexpensive doctor visit now is in collections and way more expensive since it was an emergency room visit. 

Now the hospital has to take into account of a certain % of people not paying their bill. So they charge more for each other persons visit to the hospital to your insurance. Then your insurance decides to pass that cost on to you and they even add a little more for their profits.

So how do you fix this. Well we can't make walmart or mcdonalds give their employees insurance since that will cut into their profits. So they decided to put that on the individual.

So basically you still pay for people who do not have insurance or the hospital will close.

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

Your right, it is wrong for them to use your taxes in ways you don't want the money spent. Any form if taxing is wrong, if I wanna help or take advantage of a service I will pay for it. If not then I won't, and it's wrong to force me.

But how else would we maintain our lives? Think of all of the roads, schools, air traffic controllers, public works programs (such as dams) and of course, the police, firefighters and other emergency crews that would not get enough funding. Also, as even the most conservative economist would tell you, the government is sometimes needed to interfere in the market, so as to achieve the socially optimal output. Are there better ways to run things? Is there some governmental waste? Do they sometimes make the wrong decision? In order: Maybe, Yes and yes. The problem lies in the fact that we haven't found and/or been able to implement a better system, so we have to put up with the system that we have. In the end, the free market is NOT able to achieve everything that we need to get done, nor can it create and uphold laws, so the government is needed and taxes are needed to keep the government going.

[Kaworu, the Fifth Child]

To be a good person? Do you not care about infants? I may be a little biased because my sister died in a car crash when I was little... But still, wouldn't not paying other peoples healthcare a little if they can't pay it themselves be akin to setting a homeless guys cardboard box on fire?

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

Ok, you got me with the picture.  But you haven't yet answered why I should have to pay for others.

Taysby, you're going to get me in trouble....the simple answer is that we are a community and we are beings with powers and abilities far more advanced than the rest of the animal kingdom, therefore some responsibility falls on us to be humane and moral living things. Our morality is what has allowed us to become the great societies we are today, to develop our ideas and understandings of the world and to evolve past being mere tribal apes with thumbs. The long answer is Marxist, and I will refrain from that, in respect for Piotr.

[Rass]

The point is the gov shouldn't force us to pay for a service if we don't want it.

But you still do. Random person doesn't have insurance. He cuts himself. No big deal.  Two weeks later it's infected and really messing with him. The infection gets worse he goes to the emergency room. It looks like it could be life threatening so they have to take him.  The emergency room fixes him up and sends him a bill. He ignores it knowing there is not much that can be done to him. You can really get anything from someone who has nothing. So now they waste more time and money with collections and the such.

So now something that could have been fixed with an inexpensive doctor visit now is in collections and way more expensive since it was an emergency room visit. 

Now the hospital has to take into account of a certain % of people not paying their bill. So they charge more for each other persons visit to the hospital to your insurance. Then your insurance decides to pass that cost on to you and they even add a little more for their profits.

So how do you fix this. Well we can't make walmart or mcdonalds give their employees insurance since that will cut into their profits. So they decided to put that on the individual.

So basically you still pay for people who do not have insurance or the hospital will close.

So you fix that problem by not making hospitals take people like that. Tuh duh.

Hospitals have to take people with life threatening problems. And guess what if they didn't things like the movie john q would happen.

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

The point is the gov shouldn't force us to pay for a service if we don't want it.

But you still do. Random person doesn't have insurance. He cuts himself. No big deal.  Two weeks later it's infected and really messing with him. The infection gets worse he goes to the emergency room. It looks like it could be life threatening so they have to take him.  The emergency room fixes him up and sends him a bill. He ignores it knowing there is not much that can be done to him. You can really get anything from someone who has nothing. So now they waste more time and money with collections and the such.

So now something that could have been fixed with an inexpensive doctor visit now is in collections and way more expensive since it was an emergency room visit. 

Now the hospital has to take into account of a certain % of people not paying their bill. So they charge more for each other persons visit to the hospital to your insurance. Then your insurance decides to pass that cost on to you and they even add a little more for their profits.

So how do you fix this. Well we can't make walmart or mcdonalds give their employees insurance since that will cut into their profits. So they decided to put that on the individual.

So basically you still pay for people who do not have insurance or the hospital will close.

So you fix that problem by not making hospitals take people like that. Tuh duh.

Are you just trolling us? I quote, "Now the hospital has to take into account of a certain % of people not paying their bill. So they charge more for each other persons visit to the hospital to your insurance. Then your insurance decides to pass that cost on to you and they even add a little more for their profits." Your "solution" is what we have already, but we are forced to pay for their healthcare anyways (if you would have read, it might make sense), although indirectly. Please, go get a basic understanding of economics and the current state of our nation's healthcare system before you argue any further. At least others are coming up with legitimate arguments and ethical conundrums, you are just asking questions when the answer was already given.

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

To be a good person? Do you not care about infants? I may be a little biased because my sister died in a car crash when I was little... But still, wouldn't not paying other peoples healthcare a little if they can't pay it themselves be akin to setting a homeless guys cardboard box on fire?

I care about people.  The solution I propose is make it optional instead of forcing it upon people through the use of charities and such.  I for one, would donate some money to programs like that to help underprivileged people who can't afford it and are making good lifestyle choices assuming the government wasn't forcing me to pay for services like that already.

THIS WOULDN'T WORK. If you honestly think we could get anywhere close to the same amount of money through donations, you are joking yourself. Also, if you are willing to donate the money anyways, why are you complaining that they are taking the money?!? You are being an asinine prick. Millions (47 million, last I saw) (source: http://www.usdebtclock.org/) of people live in poverty, they aren't there solely because they aren't making good lifestyle choices. I live in a household that is under the poverty line and one of my parents has a Masters degree in Childhood Education and the other is a manager at Home Depot. Get that, BOTH are working, they don't drink, or smoke, or make any other "bad lifestyle choices". My mother has MS and here medical bills are over $12,000 a month, thankfully programs like this are able to pay for them. Did she make bad decisions? Is it her fault she has an incurable disease? The real problem here is that there are too many heartless people who have a poor grasp on reality and like to bask in the bull$hit idea that they are better than the lower classes. So go on, keep telling me about how my college educated parents who are working as hard as they can to make ends meat are a bunch of thieves, but the truth is, we wallow in poverty because of the greed of the upper class and chance.