Worldspine wurm

[Kaleo42]

Because there are more than two players involved here it is important to clarify whoever's turn is the furthest from the current turn wins any trigger wars.

[Kaleo42]

Same thing. Whoevers turn is not right now wins.

[Kaleo42]

You can use {strionic resonator} to copy your trigger and put your copy on top of everything else to make you win the trigger war regardless of turn order.

[Pleeb]

I think we may all be wrong.

400.6.: If an object would move from one zone to another, determine what event is moving the object. If the object is moving to a public zone, all players look at it to see if it has any abilities that would affect the move. Then any appropriate replacement effects, whether they come from that object or from elsewhere, are applied to that event. If any effects or rules try to do two or more contradictory or mutually exclusive things to a particular object, that object's controller -- or its owner if it has no controller -- chooses which effect to apply, and what that effect does. (Note that multiple instances of the same thing may be mutually exclusive; for example, two simultaneous "destroy" effects.) Then the event moves the object.

Apparently whoever controls the worm gets to decide which replacement effect to use.

[Sardok]

From a previous question about {Nissa's Chosen} and {Rest in Peace}, I think the ruling only applies to replacement effects, which don't use the stack. Correct me if I am wrong.

Since the wurm has to actually hit the graveyard for both triggers and is not a replacement effect, I don't think this rule is applied like that. The triggers should still work in stack order.

[Kaleo42]

Replacement effect is not a trigger. That is a different situation.

"Instead" indicates a replacement where as "at", "when", or "whenever" is usually used for a trigger.

[Mr_Fahrenheit]

I feel the need to clarify that it was my turn when all the shenanigans began. But it would still be good to understand what would happen in any event.

[Gorzo]

I think we may all be wrong.

400.6.: If an object would move from one zone to another, determine what event is moving the object. If the object is moving to a public zone, all players look at it to see if it has any abilities that would affect the move. Then any appropriate replacement effects, whether they come from that object or from elsewhere, are applied to that event. If any effects or rules try to do two or more contradictory or mutually exclusive things to a particular object, that object's controller -- or its owner if it has no controller -- chooses which effect to apply, and what that effect does. (Note that multiple instances of the same thing may be mutually exclusive; for example, two simultaneous "destroy" effects.) Then the event moves the object.

Apparently whoever controls the worm gets to decide which replacement effect to use.

To clarify why this is not the case:

1) as mentioned previously, these are NOT replacement effects. They are triggered abilities.

2) "see if it has any abilities that affect the move" refers to currently active abilities that are affecting the board state, NOT any other things on the stack. Other things on the stack have no effect yet, they haven't resolved. It's referring to things like trying use {Reanimate} on {Dryad Arbor} with {Worms of the Earth} in play - the reanimate is causing a land to attempt to change zones, but Worms is affecting the move by saying "Um, no. Go away."

I stand firm with my post on page 1. This is an AP-NAP situation, and turn/priority order answers it all.

[Mr_Fahrenheit]

I'm inclined to agree with you Gorzo. The only other question I have is if the Valkyrie's ability resolves first does the wurm's ability still resolve? And if the wurm's ability resolves first does that mean the Valkyrie's cannot? Ok that's two questions but I'm sure you get the point

[Giggle the Draco Genius]

Okay time to break out some official mtg rules

400.7.: An object that moves from one zone to another becomes a new object with no memory of, or relation to, its previous existence. There are seven exceptions to this rule:

400.7d: Abilities that trigger when an object moves from one zone to another (for example, "When Rancor is put into a graveyard from the battlefield") can find the new object that it became in the zone it moved to when the ability triggered, if that zone is a public zone.

So with all of this, whichever ability resolves first will win. The Valkyrie moves the object to another zone and it forgets its graveyard self. If the wurm resolves first putting it into a hidden zone and the Valkyrie has no idea where it is.

[Zellius]

As first line of his post states doom blade never resolved so Valkyrie has no valid target  to trigger ability yet however that's not the ruling question it's the way the apnap ruling works in a FFA consisting of 3 or more players I would state that the nap would be same as determining active player it would be whoever turns next is the first non-active player. How ever her is example of stack as I understand it ATM


Stack as stated in first post
Doom blade --target wurm
Valkyrie  ability trigger targets wurm not a valid target as wurm is not dead yet
Valkyrie fizezels
Blade resolves killing  wurm

New stack
Wurm death ability triggers spawning tokens.


However argument over wurm death trigger and Valkyrie  would be wurm trigger hits stack making owner of wurm the active player in the trigger the Valkyrie trigger woul hit the stack and resolve first meaning wurm would eke enter the field then get buried into your deck.

[Sardok]

The first post states that the valkyrie is activated before {Doom Blade} resolves, NOT that it doesn't resolve. The valkyrie can't target the wurm after it dies anyway because it becomes a creature card in the graveyard and not a creature.

What the stack WOULD look like is:
(From bottom to top)

{Doom Blade}
Valkyrie ability

Valkyrie ability resolves, {Doom Blade} resolves and kills the wurm.

Death of wurm triggers both valkyrie and wurm's abilities. Stack now depends on APNAP order.

Both abilities cause the wurm to change zones i.e. It enters the new zone as a new version of itself. The subsequent ability on the stack that targeted the old wurm can't find the old wurm anymore, so it fizzles.

Edit: the tokens will spawn regardless of which ability goes through as it is only dependent on the wurm dying.