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Decks (Magic The Gathering) => Commander => Topic started by: Munchlax on November 04, 2014, 07:27:00 PM

Title: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: Munchlax on November 04, 2014, 07:27:00 PM
looking to do a poll. I'll start a numbering system. Looking for ideas on what to do next. Big props to {{Mickeven}} for going through the arguments and tallying them for me.

{Narset Enlightened Master} 8

{Zur the Enchanter} 8

{Oloro Ageless Ascetic} 6

{Derevi Empyrial Tactician} 5

{Nekusar the Mindrazer} 4

{Uril the Miststalker} 4

{Arcum Dagsson} 3

{Azami Lady of Scrolls} 3

{Kaalia of the Vast} 2

{Rafiq of the Many} 2

{Prossh Skyraider of Kher} 2

{Maelstrom Wanderer} 2

{Vendilion Clique} 2

{Marath Will of the Wild} 1

{Ruhan of the Fomori}

{Rasputin Dreamweaver} 1

{Jenara Asura of War} 1

{Zedruu the Greathearted} 1

{Sharuum of the Hedgemon} 1

{Edric Spymaster of Trest} 1

{Jhoira of the Ghitu} 1

{Wydwen the Biting Gale} 1

{Geist of St Traft} 1

{Lorthos the Tidemaker} 1

{The Mimeoplasm} 1

{Animar soul of Elements} 1

{Scion of the Ur-Dragon} 1

{Niv Mizzet the Firemind} 1

{Isamaru Hound of Konda} 1

{Sliver Queen} 1
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: rarehuntertay on November 04, 2014, 08:04:14 PM
Nekusar can be badass. But you're usually the number one target
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: MuggyWuggy on November 04, 2014, 08:50:17 PM
Scion for quick finish if needed
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: Thetrufflehunter on November 04, 2014, 08:56:35 PM
Oloro. Stax.
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: Ekann1 on November 04, 2014, 09:09:45 PM
Quote from: Taysby on November 04, 2014, 07:30:43 PM
Narset hands down.  Zur is a close second.  Both win without allowing anyone else to do anything about it.
This, plus Oloro Stax.
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: InfinitiveDivinity on November 04, 2014, 09:19:18 PM
I'm partial to Arcum. It's my competitive deck. I think it's just straight up stupid.
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: JordanCirk on November 04, 2014, 09:36:15 PM
Oloro stax
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: Munchlax on November 04, 2014, 10:19:24 PM
Updated list
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: Spikepit on November 04, 2014, 10:26:43 PM
If straight winning is your game:
{Zur the Enchanter}
{Sen Triplets}
{Uril, the Miststalker}
{Oloro, Ageless Ascetic}
{Narset, Enlightened Master}
{Athreos, God of Passage}
{Oona, Queen of the Fae}
{Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind}
(Anyone notice a common colour scheme here? Esper for life, baby!)
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: Dudecore on November 04, 2014, 10:37:30 PM
Quote from: Thetrufflehunter on November 04, 2014, 08:56:35 PM
Oloro. Stax.

Quote from: E.kann1 on November 04, 2014, 09:09:45 PM
Quote from: Taysby on November 04, 2014, 07:30:43 PM
Narset hands down.  Zur is a close second.  Both win without allowing anyone else to do anything about it.
This, plus Oloro Stax.

Quote from: JordanCirk on November 04, 2014, 09:36:15 PM
Oloro stax

You guys see that many Oloro Stax decks? I'm the only person in my LGS that runs one...
I personally think Arcum is pretty busted. Most Stax decks I've seen run either too many creatures, or they're completely attrition based (like mine). Others run {Ad Nauseam} which has less to do with Oloro and more to running a busted combo in Esper colors.
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: DimirOverlord1300 on November 04, 2014, 10:38:47 PM
Derevi, Zur, narset, wanderer, arcum, oloro... There's a lot
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: Munchlax on November 04, 2014, 10:44:25 PM
Quote from: DimirOverlord1300 on November 04, 2014, 10:38:47 PM
Derevi, Zur, narset, wanderer, arcum, oloro... There's a lot
Could you like maybe name your top three
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: DylanW18 on November 04, 2014, 11:27:29 PM
No one brings up {The Mimeoplasm}? It's pretty degenerate. Copying a {True Name Nemesis} and my commander has protection from you? Or copy {Skitheryx the Blight Dragon} and haste insta win? Or T1 {Entomb} {Jin Gitaxias, Core Augur} into T2 {Exhume}, {Animate Dead}, {Dance of the Dead} etc. gg lol
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: Dudecore on November 04, 2014, 11:33:53 PM
Quote from: DylanW18 on November 04, 2014, 11:27:29 PM
No one brings up {The Mimeoplasm}? It's pretty degenerate. Copying a {True Name Nemesis} and my commander has protection from you? Or copy {Skitheryx the Blight Dragon} and haste insta win? Or T1 {Entomb} {Jin Gitaxias, Core Augur} into T2 {Exhume}, {Animate Dead}, {Dance of the Dead} etc. gg lol

{Sedris, the Traitor King} can do reanimator too. I think the list is looking for broken commanders, not broken colors. Which is why I disagree with Oloro, because {Sen Triplets}, {Dromar the Banisher} and {Sharuum the Hedgemon} every other Esper commander ran Stax before Oloro became the best at it. If he were banned I'd just move my list back to Dromar.

Arcum and Deveri pretty much have decks build around their brokenness.

Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: Munchlax on November 04, 2014, 11:45:29 PM
So should Sedris be on the list?
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: JordanCirk on November 04, 2014, 11:47:50 PM
Quote from: Dudecore on November 04, 2014, 11:33:53 PM
Quote from: DylanW18 on November 04, 2014, 11:27:29 PM
No one brings up {The Mimeoplasm}? It's pretty degenerate. Copying a {True Name Nemesis} and my commander has protection from you? Or copy {Skitheryx the Blight Dragon} and haste insta win? Or T1 {Entomb} {Jin Gitaxias, Core Augur} into T2 {Exhume}, {Animate Dead}, {Dance of the Dead} etc. gg lol

{Sedris, the Traitor King} can do reanimator too. I think the list is looking for broken commanders, not broken colors. Which is why I disagree with Oloro, because {Sen Triplets}, {Dromar the Banisher} and {Sharuum the Hedgemon} every other Esper commander ran Stax before Oloro became the best at it. If he were banned I'd just move my list back to Dromar.

Arcum and Deveri pretty much have decks build around their brokenness.
Ahh I forgot about derevi. But in reply to the oloro stax thing, there's about 3 people in my meta that run it! It's a fairly common deck surprisingly.
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: Dudecore on November 05, 2014, 12:15:22 AM
Quote from: Munchlax on November 04, 2014, 11:45:29 PM
So should Sedris be on the list?

I feel like Sedris and {The Mimeoplasm} should NOT be on the list. As well as {Oloro, Ageless Ascetic}. I think the colors are the problem. Cards like {Zur the Enchanter} are oppressive strategies that only work with a tutor like Zur. Stax has existed forever and works with tons of different commanders, including {Zurgo Helmsmasher} of all people. Hell, even {Zur the Enchanter} is a replacement Commander for Oloro in Esper Stax, might even be better.
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: Spikepit on November 05, 2014, 12:20:16 AM
Maybe dude is right, Munch!

I remembered a similar post to this a while ago, might help your list out?

http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?topic=40580.0
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: rarehuntertay on November 05, 2014, 01:05:29 AM
Are you looking for multiplayer commanders or 1v1 French commanders?
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: Gorzo on November 05, 2014, 01:06:39 AM
Am I the only one that feels like "best" is maybe the wrong word for this?

"Best" can mean a billion things in this context. Fastest? Most reliable? Most competitive? Most fun to play? Most enjoyed by the whole table? Strongest individual legendary creature, ignoring decks/themes that go with it? And so on.

Which are you looking for, for the purpose of this list, exactly? :P
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: MarduArrow on November 05, 2014, 01:08:55 AM
 {Kaalia of the Vast}
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: Temur_Tendency on November 05, 2014, 02:45:28 AM
Quote from: MarduArrow on November 05, 2014, 01:08:55 AM
{Kaalia of the Vast}
This
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: Munchlax on November 05, 2014, 07:14:03 AM
Quote from: Gorzo on November 05, 2014, 01:06:39 AM
Am I the only one that feels like "best" is maybe the wrong word for this?

"Best" can mean a billion things in this context. Fastest? Most reliable? Most competitive? Most fun to play? Most enjoyed by the whole table? Strongest individual legendary creature, ignoring decks/themes that go with it? And so on.

Which are you looking for, for the purpose of this list, exactly? :P
I'm looking mostly for the generals that when you see them at the table, you groan because you know exactly what's coming and it scares the entire table because the deck that is associated with that general is just way too good. Also, Oloro should be on here. He is simply the best Esper Stax General right now. If he were banned yes there would be another one that would take over but they would not be quite as good as Oloro.
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: DimirOverlord1300 on November 05, 2014, 08:09:24 AM
Quote from: Temur_Tendency on November 05, 2014, 02:45:28 AM
Quote from: MarduArrow on November 05, 2014, 01:08:55 AM
{Kaalia of the Vast}
This
The problem with kaalia is if she's tucked (which isn't too hard, she doesn't protect herself) you're screwed. Your game plan rides more on her than it safely should, and compared to Zur where half your deck is counterspells that amount of dependency is bad. Not saying I don't like kaalia, I do.
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: Gorzo on November 05, 2014, 10:54:33 AM
Ah, so power/competitive.

Here's my list for the 10 most powerful generals, in no particular order:

Narset
Kaalia
Zur
Uril
Rafiq
Arcum
Nekusar
Derevi
Oloro
Xenagos
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: particle on November 05, 2014, 11:01:13 AM
no one has mentioned {azami, lady of scrolls}?
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: Kaalia with haste on November 05, 2014, 11:41:17 AM
Quote from: Gorzo on November 05, 2014, 10:54:33 AM
Ah, so power/competitive.

Here's my list for the 10 most powerful generals, in no particular order:

Narset
Kaalia
Zur
Uril
Rafiq
Arcum
Nekusar
Derevi
Oloro
Xenagos
The only changes I'd make to this list would be take out kaalia and Xenagos for prossh and marath
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: Kaalia with haste on November 05, 2014, 11:43:01 AM
Quote from: Taysby on November 05, 2014, 10:22:21 AM
Then you use one of your bajillion tutors to find her again.  You are playing black...
This.
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: Kaalia with haste on November 05, 2014, 11:43:31 AM
Quote from: Hexproof_is_the_best on November 05, 2014, 11:41:17 AM
Quote from: Gorzo on November 05, 2014, 10:54:33 AM
Ah, so power/competitive.

Here's my list for the 10 most powerful generals, in no particular order:

Narset
Kaalia
Zur
Uril
Rafiq
Arcum
Nekusar
Derevi
Oloro
Xenagos
The only changes I'd make to this list would be take out kaalia and Xenagos for prossh and Azami
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: Gorzo on November 05, 2014, 01:28:31 PM
I could see replacing Xenagos for azami, but there's no way Kaalia doesn't deserve to be on the list. If I had to cut that 10 down to 5, she'd still be on it, she's that strong.
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: NovusOrbis on November 05, 2014, 01:36:55 PM
{Rasputin Dreamweaver} because he's Russia's love machine
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: DrainCleaner on November 05, 2014, 02:59:57 PM
{Vendilion Clique} can be a monster if built right.
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: particle on November 05, 2014, 03:13:41 PM
top 5 scariest generals (imo)
1. {azami, lady of scrolls}
2. {nekusar, the mindreader}
3. {zur, the enchanter}
4. {maelstrom wanderer}
5. {narset, enlightened master}
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: Kaworu, the Fifth Child on November 05, 2014, 03:15:04 PM
Zur is pretty fukin neat
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: MarduArrow on November 05, 2014, 03:22:12 PM
Quote from: Gorzo on November 05, 2014, 01:28:31 PM
I could see replacing Xenagos for azami, but there's no way Kaalia doesn't deserve to be on the list. If I had to cut that 10 down to 5, she'd still be on it, she's that strong.

This ^
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: MuggyWuggy on November 05, 2014, 03:38:30 PM
 {Jenara, Asura of War} is pretty stupid if were talking competitive. Flying commander damage, 21 is easy in 1v1
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: Gorzo on November 05, 2014, 03:41:09 PM
Quote from: DrainCleaner on November 05, 2014, 02:59:57 PM
{Vendilion Clique} can be a monster if built right.

Oh man, I forgot about the Clique deck. Remove Xenagos from my list and put Vendillion Clique in his place for sure.
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: JordanCirk on November 05, 2014, 03:49:24 PM
Quote from: Taysby on November 05, 2014, 03:20:48 PM
Quote from: particle on November 05, 2014, 03:13:41 PM
top 5 scariest generals (imo)
1. {azami, lady of scrolls}
2. {nekusar, the mindreader}
3. {zur, the enchanter}
4. {maelstrom wanderer}
5. {narset, enlightened master}

Except narset out blitzes all of them.

Have you ever seen a maelstrom ramp deck..? I think he can easily be played just as fast as narset, if not faster
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: MuggyWuggy on November 05, 2014, 04:08:11 PM
No guys! My commander is the best!
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: DimirOverlord1300 on November 05, 2014, 04:21:58 PM
Quote from: MarduArrow on November 05, 2014, 03:22:12 PM
Quote from: Gorzo on November 05, 2014, 01:28:31 PM
I could see replacing Xenagos for azami, but there's no way Kaalia doesn't deserve to be on the list. If I had to cut that 10 down to 5, she'd still be on it, she's that strong.

This ^
Kaalias problem is she is extremely weak to an extremely wide range of hate. 2 counterspells, removal spells, etc mean game over
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: MuggyWuggy on November 05, 2014, 05:24:46 PM
You can't  play narset off the bat either.....

So now are we talking commanders on the battlefield or decks. Because now with assuming they can't land is a factor now....
Narset would be pretty weak, keep her off the field and you're fine.
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: Gorzo on November 05, 2014, 05:29:52 PM
{Force of Will}. All of your opinions and thoughts are invalid.
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: Kaworu, the Fifth Child on November 05, 2014, 05:30:51 PM
Quote from: Gorzo on November 05, 2014, 05:29:52 PM
{Force of Will}. All of your opinions and thoughts are invalid.
*enchantment that makes my creatures uncounterable*. All your FOW are invalid.
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: Gorzo on November 05, 2014, 05:31:49 PM
Quote from: Mishra, Artificer Extraordinaire on November 05, 2014, 05:30:51 PM
Quote from: Gorzo on November 05, 2014, 05:29:52 PM
{Force of Will}. All of your opinions and thoughts are invalid.
*enchantment that makes my creatures uncounterable*. All your FOW are invalid.

FOW that enchantment. WHAT DO YOU DO NOW?
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: particle on November 05, 2014, 05:31:58 PM
Quote from: Taysby on November 05, 2014, 05:21:07 PM
Quote from: JordanCirk on November 05, 2014, 03:49:24 PM
Quote from: Taysby on November 05, 2014, 03:20:48 PM
Quote from: particle on November 05, 2014, 03:13:41 PM
top 5 scariest generals (imo)
1. {azami, lady of scrolls}
2. {nekusar, the mindreader}
3. {zur, the enchanter}
4. {maelstrom wanderer}
5. {narset, enlightened master}

Except narset out blitzes all of them.

Have you ever seen a maelstrom ramp deck..? I think he can easily be played just as fast as narset, if not faster

He can, but playing him does not immediately win the game.

playing narset doesnt cause you to win immediately either.
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: Kaworu, the Fifth Child on November 05, 2014, 05:34:36 PM
Quote from: Gorzo on November 05, 2014, 05:31:49 PM
Quote from: Mishra, Artificer Extraordinaire on November 05, 2014, 05:30:51 PM
Quote from: Gorzo on November 05, 2014, 05:29:52 PM
{Force of Will}. All of your opinions and thoughts are invalid.
*enchantment that makes my creatures uncounterable*. All your FOW are invalid.

FOW that enchantment. WHAT DO YOU DO NOW?
*puts on brass nuckles and hits you as you cast it* DO YOU HAVE A RESPONSE?
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: JordanCirk on November 05, 2014, 05:54:02 PM
Quote from: Taysby on November 05, 2014, 05:38:50 PM
Quote from: particle on November 05, 2014, 05:31:58 PM
Quote from: Taysby on November 05, 2014, 05:21:07 PM
Quote from: JordanCirk on November 05, 2014, 03:49:24 PM
Quote from: Taysby on November 05, 2014, 03:20:48 PM
Quote from: particle on November 05, 2014, 03:13:41 PM
top 5 scariest generals (imo)
1. {azami, lady of scrolls}
2. {nekusar, the mindreader}
3. {zur, the enchanter}
4. {maelstrom wanderer}
5. {narset, enlightened master}

Except narset out blitzes all of them.

Have you ever seen a maelstrom ramp deck..? I think he can easily be played just as fast as narset, if not faster

He can, but playing him does not immediately win the game.

playing narset doesnt cause you to win immediately either.
You will have a haste source out, swing, get infinite turns, 21 commander damage.

Yes.  Yes it does.

Well that answers it folks. 100% of the time when Narset gets cast, Insta-win. GG. List complete. Idk why we're still talking when it's obvious that Narset beats all.
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: MuggyWuggy on November 05, 2014, 06:01:08 PM
But I can ramp scion into t3 and kill you before you cast your commander
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: MuggyWuggy on November 05, 2014, 06:02:02 PM
He is also a dragon so like 5999000 cool points over narset who is a boring monk.

Maelstrom gets a lot of cool points too because its all elementy and stuff
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: DimirOverlord1300 on November 05, 2014, 06:16:44 PM
Wanderer is actually a bigger "I win" than narset. If you cast narset there are still answers. Wanderer is a threat himself that carries two other threats with him that you still get even if he's countered. Especially with the printing of the new anti hexproof land wanderer is better.
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: rarehuntertay on November 05, 2014, 06:26:28 PM
I'll just play  {Chains of Mephistopheles} with  {Teferi's Puzzle Box}... Unless your first draw is an instant destroy one of my two, everyone gets locked out...
Then Nekusar slowly kills you all...
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: MuggyWuggy on November 05, 2014, 06:27:22 PM
So esper wins
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: MarduArrow on November 05, 2014, 06:39:13 PM
Quote from: DimirOverlord1300 on November 05, 2014, 04:21:58 PM
Quote from: MarduArrow on November 05, 2014, 03:22:12 PM
Quote from: Gorzo on November 05, 2014, 01:28:31 PM
I could see replacing Xenagos for azami, but there's no way Kaalia doesn't deserve to be on the list. If I had to cut that 10 down to 5, she'd still be on it, she's that strong.

This ^
Kaalias problem is she is extremely weak to an extremely wide range of hate. 2 counterspells, removal spells, etc mean game over

This argument is invalid, all commanders are vulnerable to some sort of removal (try naming one that isn't) and as for counterspells, there are very few commanders that can't be countered
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: DylanW18 on November 05, 2014, 06:48:26 PM
I see both sides, but Narset IS hexproof. No condemn. No Path, no Swords. Boardwipe or nothing. But I don't believe Narset is the end all be all. This game is a huge Rock Paper Scissors Lizard Spock. No one idea trumps any other in edh. Luck is SUCH a huge factor. I've had people with .poo. Edh decks trump me, and others. Game to game is very different. So here's what I say


Everyone: No need to harass Taysby.

Taysby: We get it. You like Narset. I like the Mimeoplasm. They are what they are. You can stop acting superior.

Just get along

/endrant
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: Munchlax on November 05, 2014, 07:02:54 PM
You guys started arguing over the best general which is not at all what this was meant to be. Go fight about it somewhere else.

(P.S. Zedruu is the best)
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: Agrajagzz9 on November 05, 2014, 07:05:57 PM
My list
1    {Azami, Lady of Scrolls}
2    {Maelstrom Wanderer}
3.    {Zur the Enchanter}
4.    {Prossh, Skyraider of Kher}
5.    {Sharuum the Hegemon}
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: MuggyWuggy on November 05, 2014, 07:12:43 PM
Actually spirit of the labyrinth + possibility storm will shut down maelstrom and narset.
Narset dies to anger of the gods
Scion does not
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: Agrajagzz9 on November 05, 2014, 07:19:47 PM
Narest is good but not unbeatable. In magical Xmas land you can always have haste. Barest doesn't make thins uncounterable. Doesn't make things unbeatable. Relax no general is perfect. I hope you get hindered some day and durdle until you get killed.
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: Silent1236 on November 05, 2014, 07:24:29 PM
{Edric, Spymaster of Trest} 😜
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: MuggyWuggy on November 05, 2014, 07:38:55 PM
We should all meet up for an FFA, first to die would be narset by taysby
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: rarehuntertay on November 05, 2014, 07:41:50 PM
 {Meekstone} will shut down most generals that rely on attacking... But oh well... Let's all get together, have a Grand Melee EDH... That will solve it all!!!!
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: MuggyWuggy on November 05, 2014, 08:02:42 PM
Merieke ri berit will take everything and silent arbiter will make it a 1 on 1 type game ;)
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: DimirOverlord1300 on November 05, 2014, 08:11:11 PM
Quote from: MarduArrow on November 05, 2014, 06:39:13 PM
Quote from: DimirOverlord1300 on November 05, 2014, 04:21:58 PM
Quote from: MarduArrow on November 05, 2014, 03:22:12 PM
Quote from: Gorzo on November 05, 2014, 01:28:31 PM
I could see replacing Xenagos for azami, but there's no way Kaalia doesn't deserve to be on the list. If I had to cut that 10 down to 5, she'd still be on it, she's that strong.

This ^
Kaalias problem is she is extremely weak to an extremely wide range of hate. 2 counterspells, removal spells, etc mean game over

This argument is invalid, all commanders are vulnerable to some sort of removal (try naming one that isn't) and as for counterspells, there are very few commanders that can't be countered
Yeah every commander can be countered or removed, but in kaalia your game plan rides on her so much that if she's removed it cripples you more than it is healthy for a deck to be.
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: MarduArrow on November 05, 2014, 09:45:58 PM
Quote from: DimirOverlord1300 on November 05, 2014, 08:11:11 PM
Quote from: MarduArrow on November 05, 2014, 06:39:13 PM
Quote from: DimirOverlord1300 on November 05, 2014, 04:21:58 PM
Quote from: MarduArrow on November 05, 2014, 03:22:12 PM
Quote from: Gorzo on November 05, 2014, 01:28:31 PM
I could see replacing Xenagos for azami, but there's no way Kaalia doesn't deserve to be on the list. If I had to cut that 10 down to 5, she'd still be on it, she's that strong.

This ^
Kaalias problem is she is extremely weak to an extremely wide range of hate. 2 counterspells, removal spells, etc mean game over

This argument is invalid, all commanders are vulnerable to some sort of removal (try naming one that isn't) and as for counterspells, there are very few commanders that can't be countered
Yeah every commander can be countered or removed, but in kaalia your game plan rides on her so much that if she's removed it cripples you more than it is healthy for a deck to be.

Not necessarily, build it right and you can play her late game to cheat in a killer creature for a win, or even not play her at all
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: DimirOverlord1300 on November 05, 2014, 10:18:32 PM
Quote from: MarduArrow on November 05, 2014, 09:45:58 PM
Quote from: DimirOverlord1300 on November 05, 2014, 08:11:11 PM
Quote from: MarduArrow on November 05, 2014, 06:39:13 PM
Quote from: DimirOverlord1300 on November 05, 2014, 04:21:58 PM
Quote from: MarduArrow on November 05, 2014, 03:22:12 PM
Quote from: Gorzo on November 05, 2014, 01:28:31 PM
I could see replacing Xenagos for azami, but there's no way Kaalia doesn't deserve to be on the list. If I had to cut that 10 down to 5, she'd still be on it, she's that strong.

This ^
Kaalias problem is she is extremely weak to an extremely wide range of hate. 2 counterspells, removal spells, etc mean game over

This argument is invalid, all commanders are vulnerable to some sort of removal (try naming one that isn't) and as for counterspells, there are very few commanders that can't be countered
Yeah every commander can be countered or removed, but in kaalia your game plan rides on her so much that if she's removed it cripples you more than it is healthy for a deck to be.

Not necessarily, build it right and you can play her late game to cheat in a killer creature for a win, or even not play her at all
But then you're losing the speed that makes her powerful
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: Dudecore on November 05, 2014, 10:20:27 PM
Most Kaalia decks I've seen don't rely on her at all. She's a pretty weak 2/2 that gets pretty darn bad later. So she has to be out early. Even that early pressure isn't exactly a lockout situation either
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: particle on November 05, 2014, 10:53:27 PM
Quote from: Taysby on November 05, 2014, 05:38:50 PM
Quote from: particle on November 05, 2014, 05:31:58 PM
Quote from: Taysby on November 05, 2014, 05:21:07 PM
Quote from: JordanCirk on November 05, 2014, 03:49:24 PM
Quote from: Taysby on November 05, 2014, 03:20:48 PM
Quote from: particle on November 05, 2014, 03:13:41 PM
top 5 scariest generals (imo)
1. {azami, lady of scrolls}
2. {nekusar, the mindreader}
3. {zur, the enchanter}
4. {maelstrom wanderer}
5. {narset, enlightened master}

Except narset out blitzes all of them.

Have you ever seen a maelstrom ramp deck..? I think he can easily be played just as fast as narset, if not faster

He can, but playing him does not immediately win the game.

playing narset doesnt cause you to win immediately either.
You will have a haste source out, swing, get infinite turns, 21 commander damage.

Yes.  Yes it does.

so playing narset automatically means you can attack? what if when you go to combat i cast {diabolic edict} and target you? and dont say youll counter it. ill just counter narset. oh {cavern of souls}? cool i got {boseiju, who shelters all}.
sure if everything goes according to plan narset should win, but casting her doesnt guarantee you get to do anything fun.
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: MarduArrow on November 06, 2014, 01:22:47 AM
Quote from: DimirOverlord1300 on November 05, 2014, 10:18:32 PM
Quote from: MarduArrow on November 05, 2014, 09:45:58 PM
Quote from: DimirOverlord1300 on November 05, 2014, 08:11:11 PM
Quote from: MarduArrow on November 05, 2014, 06:39:13 PM
Quote from: DimirOverlord1300 on November 05, 2014, 04:21:58 PM
Quote from: MarduArrow on November 05, 2014, 03:22:12 PM
Quote from: Gorzo on November 05, 2014, 01:28:31 PM
I could see replacing Xenagos for azami, but there's no way Kaalia doesn't deserve to be on the list. If I had to cut that 10 down to 5, she'd still be on it, she's that strong.

This ^
Kaalias problem is she is extremely weak to an extremely wide range of hate. 2 counterspells, removal spells, etc mean game over

This argument is invalid, all commanders are vulnerable to some sort of removal (try naming one that isn't) and as for counterspells, there are very few commanders that can't be countered
Yeah every commander can be countered or removed, but in kaalia your game plan rides on her so much that if she's removed it cripples you more than it is healthy for a deck to be.

Not necessarily, build it right and you can play her late game to cheat in a killer creature for a win, or even not play her at all
But then you're losing the speed that makes her powerful

This again depends on the deck, you could potentially put something powerful into the graveyard from your hand or library and drop a  {Karmic Guide} as early as turn 2 or 3, having kaalia on the field just means you don't have to pay for guide
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: imFourth of Phils on November 06, 2014, 01:32:10 AM
i dun know but i find this 2 commanders strong.. {Jhoira of the Ghitu} and {Wydwen, the Biting Gale}
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: gtfotis on November 06, 2014, 02:57:27 AM
{Geist of Saint Traft} 😁
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: particle on November 06, 2014, 09:08:57 AM
Quote from: Taysby on November 06, 2014, 12:33:53 AM
Also, boseija does nothig vs cavern.

boesiju does nothing against cavern, but that wasnt the point. the point is sure your creature can be uncounterable, but so will my removal spell.
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: Agrajagzz9 on November 06, 2014, 09:53:54 AM
You are living in magical Xmas land if you think you will have haste on narset even half the time. People know your game plan and will destroy your enablers good luck plucking out fow every game also. After all it's not like if a singleton format out f 99 other cards. But your right. Narset cannot be beaten. Unless I have cards which prevent extra turns. Not like those exist though or god fobid a  {Powerstone Minefield}. Every general has weaknesses and you are dreaming if you expect to win even 80% of games. When you have a deck like narset sure it's good in a vaccine while gold fishing with yourself but hate exists and people will gang up on you. Sorry to burst bubbles
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: MuggyWuggy on November 06, 2014, 11:29:38 AM
Competitive EDH...why not just play legacy?
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: MuggyWuggy on November 06, 2014, 11:41:25 AM
So you ruin one format because you don't have access to another?
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: Dudecore on November 06, 2014, 11:52:43 AM
must every thread devolve into an argument with Taysby?
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: MuggyWuggy on November 06, 2014, 12:01:19 PM
Quote from: Dudecore on November 06, 2014, 11:52:43 AM
must every thread devolve into an argument with Taysby?

Apparently if he is apart of the conversation: yes.
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: theintelligentleman on November 06, 2014, 12:24:32 PM
Quote from: Dudecore on November 06, 2014, 11:52:43 AM
must every thread devolve into an argument with Taysby?
Haha I have no idea, but I find it entertaining.
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: JordanCirk on November 06, 2014, 12:31:33 PM
Quote from: Dudecore on November 06, 2014, 11:52:43 AM
must every thread devolve into an argument with Taysby?
Yes.
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: griffin131 on November 06, 2014, 06:21:01 PM
{Lorthos, the Tidemaker} is a lot of fun.
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: Munchlax on November 07, 2014, 12:09:06 AM
Could someone please go through and delete the argument as it is making it difficult to find the votes
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: Arzair on November 07, 2014, 03:45:33 AM
100% {Narset,the enlightened master} is the best legal general on the format right now hands down. Name another commander with realistically possible turn 2 wins. Turn 3 for sure.
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: rarehuntertay on November 07, 2014, 04:27:35 AM
Quote from: Arzair on November 07, 2014, 03:45:33 AM
100% {Narset,the enlightened master} is the best legal general on the format right now hands down. Name another commander with realistically possible turn 2 wins. Turn 3 for sure.
Narset is good. One of the best, I'll give you that. I personally have never lost to a Narset deck while playing against one. But it's all everyone's opinions in thread, so know one really knows until data from every where has been collected.
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: MuggyWuggy on November 07, 2014, 04:37:11 AM
Quote from: Arzair on November 07, 2014, 03:45:33 AM
100% {Narset,the enlightened master} is the best legal general on the format right now hands down. Name another commander with realistically possible turn 2 wins. Turn 3 for sure.
Can u google this for us?
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: Spikepit on November 07, 2014, 05:25:34 AM
Let's not start up again dudes. People have a run of luck/skill with one in part of the world and others have a separate run of luck/skill with another deck in another part of the world. We're all right. Yay!

I really think at least {Sen Triplets}, {Uril, the Miststalker} and {Kaalia of the Vast} should be added considering they've been mentioned enough and one more to Narset with {{Arzair}}'s vote.
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: Munchlax on November 07, 2014, 07:09:27 AM
Quote from: Spikepit on November 07, 2014, 05:25:34 AM
Let's not start up again dudes. People have a run of luck/skill with one in part of the world and others have a separate run of luck/skill with another deck in another part of the world. We're all right. Yay!

I really think at least {Sen Triplets}, {Uril, the Miststalker} and {Kaalia of the Vast} should be added considering they've been mentioned enough and one more to Narset with {{Arzair}}'s vote.
Alright, I'll update it later. I just don't have the time right now
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: MarduArrow on November 07, 2014, 10:40:19 AM
Quote from: Arzair on November 07, 2014, 03:45:33 AM
100% {Narset,the enlightened master} is the best legal general on the format right now hands down. Name another commander with realistically possible turn 2 wins. Turn 3 for sure.

Narset costs too much to possibly get out on turn 2 maybe turn 3 if you have a lucky opening hand and even then she doesn't have haste. Kaalia on the other hand has a realistic possibility of attacking on turn 3 and cheating in   {Master of Cruelties} for a win
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: particle on November 07, 2014, 10:42:48 AM
Quote from: MarduArrow on November 07, 2014, 10:40:19 AM
Quote from: Arzair on November 07, 2014, 03:45:33 AM
100% {Narset,the enlightened master} is the best legal general on the format right now hands down. Name another commander with realistically possible turn 2 wins. Turn 3 for sure.

Narset costs too much to possibly get out on turn 2 maybe turn 3 if you have a lucky opening hand and even then she doesn't have haste. Kaalia on the other hand has a realistic possibility of attacking on turn 3 and cheating in   {Master of Cruelties} for a win

both of these are god hands.
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: the_intelligentleman on November 07, 2014, 11:06:23 AM
{Uril, The Miststalker} is really broken. You have no interaction. You lose. Every game. *sighs*
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: MuggyWuggy on November 07, 2014, 11:45:29 AM
Voltron
Swing swing
Dead
Uril is so OP that's why I'm selling that deck, too boring
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: DimirOverlord1300 on November 07, 2014, 12:45:38 PM
Quote from: the_intelligentleman on November 07, 2014, 11:06:23 AM
{Uril, The Miststalker} is really broken. You have no interaction. You lose. Every game. *sighs*
Nah you just need good answers. Counter him they die. Make them sac him they die. Board wipe they die.
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: MuggyWuggy on November 07, 2014, 03:21:35 PM
But I started with mana dorks and leyline of sanctity
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: Gorzo on November 07, 2014, 03:25:17 PM
Quote from: MuggyWuggy on November 07, 2014, 11:45:29 AM
Voltron
Swing swing
Dead
Uril is so OP that's why I'm selling that deck, too boring

Yeah, I ended up deconstructing my Uril deck because it was too... Easy. I ended up turning into a slightly less mean Rafiq deck, had to do something with all those auras!
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: MuggyWuggy on November 07, 2014, 03:26:56 PM
Bant angels for moi :)
Just need a linvala and its done
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: particle on November 07, 2014, 03:38:06 PM
Quote from: Taysby on November 07, 2014, 10:59:23 AM
Quote from: MarduArrow on November 07, 2014, 10:40:19 AM
Quote from: Arzair on November 07, 2014, 03:45:33 AM
100% {Narset,the enlightened master} is the best legal general on the format right now hands down. Name another commander with realistically possible turn 2 wins. Turn 3 for sure.

Narset costs too much to possibly get out on turn 2 maybe turn 3 if you have a lucky opening hand and even then she doesn't have haste. Kaalia on the other hand has a realistic possibility of attacking on turn 3 and cheating in   {Master of Cruelties} for a win

With partial Paris mulligans it is quite easy.

How about you guys just play against me on untap?

can you stop claiming its so easy and prove it please? can you name 5 + opening hands that can swing turn2 for infinite turns? if you cant get 5+ combinations, i doubt its so easy.
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: MuggyWuggy on November 07, 2014, 06:17:08 PM
Oh so you don't own this deck yet? You just have it proxied :P
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: Munchlax on November 07, 2014, 06:18:17 PM
COULD SOMEONE PLEASE GO AND DELETE ALL THE ARGUMENTS BECAUSE ITS REALLY FLIPPIN HARD TO WORK AROUND THOSE SO PLEASE SOMEONE DO THIS
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: particle on November 07, 2014, 06:26:31 PM
Quote from: Munchlax on November 07, 2014, 06:18:17 PM
COULD SOMEONE PLEASE GO AND DELETE ALL THE ARGUMENTS BECAUSE ITS REALLY FLIPPIN HARD TO WORK AROUND THOSE SO PLEASE SOMEONE DO THIS

sorry man, just cause you wanted this to only be people voting, people have decided they want to defend their arguments more than just giving a list.
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: mickeven on November 07, 2014, 06:34:07 PM
I vote for {Narset, Controversy Master} as my favorite, since I have crush on her even tho she has man brows
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: Dudecore on November 07, 2014, 06:34:13 PM
This thread has been completely derailed. There is no saving it. This is why we cannot have nice things.
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: mickeven on November 07, 2014, 06:41:37 PM
Quote from: Munchlax on November 07, 2014, 06:18:17 PM
COULD SOMEONE PLEASE GO AND DELETE ALL THE ARGUMENTS BECAUSE ITS REALLY FLIPPIN HARD TO WORK AROUND THOSE SO PLEASE SOMEONE DO THIS

do you remember which post you stoped counting in? maybe i can help out a bit with those after and if im able i can PM you the numbers
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: Munchlax on November 07, 2014, 06:48:05 PM
Quote from: mickeven on November 07, 2014, 06:41:37 PM
Quote from: Munchlax on November 07, 2014, 06:18:17 PM
COULD SOMEONE PLEASE GO AND DELETE ALL THE ARGUMENTS BECAUSE ITS REALLY FLIPPIN HARD TO WORK AROUND THOSE SO PLEASE SOMEONE DO THIS

do you remember which post you stoped counting in? maybe i can help out a bit with those after and if im able i can PM you the numbers
I left one day for a while after counting day two and showed up again to find three pages of arguments with some votes mixed in
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: Silent1236 on November 07, 2014, 07:27:36 PM
Quote from: Munchlax on November 07, 2014, 06:18:17 PM
COULD SOMEONE PLEASE GO AND DELETE ALL THE ARGUMENTS BECAUSE ITS REALLY FLIPPIN HARD TO WORK AROUND THOSE SO PLEASE SOMEONE DO THIS

Just look for posts by people other than Taysby and particle. Pretty simple.
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: mickeven on November 07, 2014, 08:02:26 PM
Quote from: Munchlax on November 07, 2014, 06:48:05 PM
Quote from: mickeven on November 07, 2014, 06:41:37 PM
Quote from: Munchlax on November 07, 2014, 06:18:17 PM
COULD SOMEONE PLEASE GO AND DELETE ALL THE ARGUMENTS BECAUSE ITS REALLY FLIPPIN HARD TO WORK AROUND THOSE SO PLEASE SOMEONE DO THIS

do you remember which post you stoped counting in? maybe i can help out a bit with those after and if im able i can PM you the numbers


I left one day for a while after counting day two and showed up again to find three pages of arguments with some votes mixed in

Cool im working on it
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: Munchlax on November 08, 2014, 01:42:45 PM
Updated!
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: Gorzo on November 08, 2014, 02:41:07 PM
How did {Rasputin Dreamweaver} get on the list? :P
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: Munchlax on November 08, 2014, 03:00:08 PM
Quote from: Gorzo on November 08, 2014, 02:41:07 PM
How did {Rasputin Dreamweaver} get on the list? :P
Someone voted for him
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: Agrajagzz9 on November 08, 2014, 06:33:43 PM
People just need to not argue with other people who won't see reason. It's like chess with a dog. No matter how good you are at chess the dog is just going to knock over the peices lick it's junk and strut around victorious. Please it keep threads on track and ignore the people who want to argue and be right when expressing opinions
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: rarehuntertay on November 08, 2014, 09:52:47 PM
^^ that is straight up awesome ^^
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: NovusOrbis on November 10, 2014, 08:28:55 PM
Quote from: Gorzo on November 08, 2014, 02:41:07 PM
How did {Rasputin Dreamweaver} get on the list? :P
I like him just for the flavor.😉 In my opinion, the best commander to play really just depends on your play group.
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: AdamS on November 10, 2014, 08:41:44 PM
 {Ruhan of the Fomori} is my favorate
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: Kaalia with haste on November 10, 2014, 09:24:55 PM
Vote for uril
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: Yawgmoth85 on November 11, 2014, 03:45:47 PM
Vote for derevi
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: Kaalia with haste on November 11, 2014, 10:06:04 PM
Quote from: Yawgmoth85 on November 11, 2014, 03:45:47 PM
Vote for derevi
Derevi is my mortal enemy lol
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: the_intelligentleman on November 11, 2014, 10:20:01 PM
Quote from: Hexproof_is_the_best on November 11, 2014, 10:06:04 PM
Quote from: Yawgmoth85 on November 11, 2014, 03:45:47 PM
Vote for derevi
Derevi is my mortal enemy lol
Don't you mean Oona.
Title: Re: Best Generals in the Format
Post by: Kaalia with haste on November 11, 2014, 10:22:00 PM
Quote from: the_intelligentleman on November 11, 2014, 10:20:01 PM
Quote from: Hexproof_is_the_best on November 11, 2014, 10:06:04 PM
Quote from: Yawgmoth85 on November 11, 2014, 03:45:47 PM
Vote for derevi
Derevi is my mortal enemy lol
Don't you mean Oona.
Elliott praying to god you draw into rings and monolith every game isn't threatening lol.