So here's a broken card.
{Deadeye Navigator}
2 mana to flicker a creature and then 2 to repair him with anyone else? BROKEN. So what are you guys's favorite ways of breaking this card. I love using him with {Man-o-War} to bounce all of my opponents' stuff.
Quote from: DimirOverlord1300 on June 13, 2014, 08:41:27 PM
So here's a broken card.
{Deadeye Navigator}
2 mana to flicker a creature and then 2 to repair him with anyone else? BROKEN. So what are you guys's favorite ways of breaking this card. I love using him with {Man-o-War} to bounce all of my opponents' stuff.
I honestly HAVE NO CLUE WHY THIS CARD ISN'T BANNED IN EDH!!!!!
Dead-Eye + any etb/leave the battlefield trigger is broken as hell
Quote from: Mattao19 on June 13, 2014, 08:56:21 PM
Quote from: DimirOverlord1300 on June 13, 2014, 08:41:27 PM
So here's a broken card.
{Deadeye Navigator}
2 mana to flicker a creature and then 2 to repair him with anyone else? BROKEN. So what are you guys's favorite ways of breaking this card. I love using him with {Man-o-War} to bounce all of my opponents' stuff.
I honestly HAVE NO CLUE WHY THIS CARD ISN'T BANNED IN EDH!!!!!
Dead-Eye + any etb/leave the battlefield trigger is broken as hell
It's not banned because I love it.
If you bounce a creature and return it to the battlefield it counts as a new entity with no memory of I guess "prior events" so to speak right? Like for instance someone uses spot removal to try and get rid of a creature bonded with deadeye and I bounce the creature in response, when it comes back onto the battlefield it's not the same creature that was targeted by the spell right?
This is correct.
I don't use it personally, but I have seen it used with {Great Whale} for infinite mana
I also forget, can you activate abilities and cast spells after blockers are declared and before combat damage is done? With the rest of what I asked you basically counter spot removal spells for two mana, but if you can activate it after blockers are declared and before combat damage is done you can also basically regenerate creatures.
Yes you can
{Draining Whelk} for countering
{Venser, Shaper Savant} for bounce countering
{Palinchron} {Great Whale} and {Peregrine Drake} for infinite mana
{Gulf Squid} on opponents upkeep
I really don't like this card, but I built my {Derevi} deck with it because that deck was supposed to be as degenerate as possible on a budget. Main win con is Deadeye + {Palinchron} for infinite mana, then draw through my deck by bonding Comboenabler to {Coiling Oracle} or {Sphinx of Uthuun}, and then {Blue Sun's Zenith} everyone at the table for Graham's Number or more.
In case people do not know, there is a small window where you can take out {Deadeye Navigator}.
The soulbond ability is actually a triggered ability, meaning it uses the stack. So you can respond to the trigger by killing the navigator and it can't flicker.
Therefore, it is not invincible.
I have been very vocal to my playgroups about how much I hate this card. It should be added to the ban list and Sylvan Primordial should be unbanned. Navigator is a much, much bigger problem.
Quote from: Sardok on June 14, 2014, 07:43:17 AM
In case people do not know, there is a small window where you can take out {Deadeye Navigator}.
The soulbond ability is actually a triggered ability, meaning it uses the stack. So you can respond to the trigger by killing the navigator and it can't flicker.
Therefore, it is not invincible.
they can also respond to your doom blade by flickering him again.
Quote from: particle on June 14, 2014, 02:44:20 PM
Quote from: Sardok on June 14, 2014, 07:43:17 AM
In case people do not know, there is a small window where you can take out {Deadeye Navigator}.
The soulbond ability is actually a triggered ability, meaning it uses the stack. So you can respond to the trigger by killing the navigator and it can't flicker.
Therefore, it is not invincible.
they can also respond to your doom blade by flickering him again.
Incorrect. When Navigator or the creature you wish to soulbond with enters the battlefield, the soulbound trigger goes on the stack (it hasn't resolved yet). At this point, you can target the Navigator with a kill spell. If there are no more responses, the stack resolves, with the kill spell destroying Navigator. Then the soulbond trigger tries to resolve, but since one of its targets are not there, it fizzles.
The same is true when Navigator (or bonded creature) flickers back in. The soulbond trigger goes on stack, waiting to resolve.
Sardok is correct.
He's arguing a different point he's saying once they're bonded they can:
1. Attempt to flicker
2. Opponent {Doom Blades}
3. Attempt to flicker again
Quote from: Mattao19 on June 14, 2014, 07:02:37 PM
He's arguing a different point he's saying once they're bonded they can:
1. Attempt to flicker
2. Opponent {Doom Blades}
3. Attempt to flicker again
That is correct. However, particle was replying to Sardok's comment, in which you cannot flicker because that ability is not active at the time.
2 words... {Suddon Spoiling}... Try to flicker now B¡tch!
I play him in my Animar EDH deck but I disagree with him being completely broken and that he should be banned. He is like {Mikaeus the unhallowed}; you have to have a second piece in order for him to be effective, and there are plenty of ways to get rid of him or negate his effect. A wrath takes care of them and there are PLENTY in EDH. {topor orb} deals with it too (except the flicker part to avoid spot removal}.
He's definitely powerful, but so is {sol ring}, {sensei's divining top}, and {akromas memorial} but all those cards can be dealt with just like deadeye can
Quote from: Jlamb5 on June 16, 2014, 10:39:11 AM
I play him in my Animar EDH deck but I disagree with him being completely broken and that he should be banned. He is like {Mikaeus the unhallowed}; you have to have a second piece in order for him to be effective, and there are plenty of ways to get rid of him or negate his effect. A wrath takes care of them and there are PLENTY in EDH. {topor orb} deals with it too (except the flicker part to avoid spot removal}.
He's definitely powerful, but so is {sol ring}, {sensei's divining top}, and {akromas memorial} but all those cards can be dealt with just like deadeye can
The thing is is that any enter/leaves the battlefield trigger is broken with him in EDH
Conjurers closet
Lol
Quote from: Mattao19 on June 16, 2014, 10:44:46 AM
Quote from: Jlamb5 on June 16, 2014, 10:39:11 AM
I play him in my Animar EDH deck but I disagree with him being completely broken and that he should be banned. He is like {Mikaeus the unhallowed}; you have to have a second piece in order for him to be effective, and there are plenty of ways to get rid of him or negate his effect. A wrath takes care of them and there are PLENTY in EDH. {topor orb} deals with it too (except the flicker part to avoid spot removal}.
He's definitely powerful, but so is {sol ring}, {sensei's divining top}, and {akromas memorial} but all those cards can be dealt with just like deadeye can
The thing is is that any enter/leaves the battlefield trigger is broken with him in EDH
The problem is that he's not extremely difficult to deal with. If your play group plays Infinite combos all the time with him, with tutors to put the pieces together, then I think you gotta find ways to make sure he/she doesn't get there. Breaking a mechanic isn't that bad....things like {sylvan primordial} are different because it's ETB effect breaks the game by itself, on the initial ETB trigger. Playing it in a 4 player game and then ramping 3 full lands ahead is outrageous. It's far more broken then deadeye. And deadeye requires at least two pieces. It may see a ban at some point but I wouldn't think highly of it because there are plenty of combos that can be used that should be banned then. Things like {food chain} can be far more potent in a deck than a deadeye can be
Quote from: Jlamb5 on June 16, 2014, 12:45:48 PMhings like {sylvan primordial} are different because it's ETB effect breaks the game by itself, on the initial ETB trigger. Playing it in a 4 player game and then ramping 3 full lands ahead is outrageous.
So, question for you. How do you feel about Fast Mana? Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, Ramp spells in general? With the Primordial costing seven mana, it usually doesn't come down too soon. But if it does come down where being up by three, maybe five, mana actually matters, the player was already way too far ahead to be able to catch up. Because of the nature of the "Big Mana" format that is EDH, anything that costs more than six mana should have a game-changing effect, like Sylvan Primordial or Dead-Eye Navigator. The problem is not the impact of the spells themselves, but rather, the Archetype that uses them. Sylvan Primordial is only a problem because the ever-present Ramp decks can power it out fast enough to pull themselves out of reach. Maybe the metas I play in are completely different from yours and that creates different views, but I honestly would like to know: If Sylvan Primordial should be banned for the mana advantage it creates, shouldn't Fast Mana?
{Swagtusk}
Quote from: rarehuntertay on June 14, 2014, 07:30:07 PM
Quote from: Mattao19 on June 14, 2014, 07:02:37 PM
He's arguing a different point he's saying once they're bonded they can:
1. Attempt to flicker
2. Opponent {Doom Blades}
3. Attempt to flicker again
That is correct. However, particle was replying to Sardok's comment, in which you cannot flicker because that ability is not active at the time.
yea i thought he was talking about flickering not soul bonding.
Except {Sylvan Primordial} doesn't just ramp, it destroys stuff too...
Good bye noncreature essentials
Quote from: NyghtHawk on June 17, 2014, 08:59:57 PM
Except {Sylvan Primordial} doesn't just ramp, it destroys stuff too...
This here is the same way I feel! Because it's an ETB ability it's abuseable (not really a word but whatevs) there are TONS of ways to make it so that you can destroy everything and pull all the land from your deck without much work. Mana accelerants such as {sol ring} do provide a quick boost but it's a single use per turn (with a few exceptions) they also don't give you a 6/8 body that block the likes of things like {kaalia of the vast} and other semi threatening (yes I think kaalia is only semi threatening) flyers with ease.