Hoping that everyone up there is ok right now. If there's anyone from there on here, my thoughts and prayers are with you right now. So sick that something like this can happen during a marathon dedicated to the memories of those lost in the Sandy Hook massacre.
My sister ran in the marathon. Luckily she finished two miunets before it happened, and was on her way to a restraunt with some of her friends
Quote from: Birdbrain on April 15, 2013, 07:05:56 PM
My sister ran in the marathon. Luckily she finished two miunets before it happened, and was on her way to a restraunt with some of her friends
Glad to hear she is ok.
Quote from: Xaol on April 15, 2013, 07:12:22 PM
Quote from: Birdbrain on April 15, 2013, 07:05:56 PM
My sister ran in the marathon. Luckily she finished two miunets before it happened, and was on her way to a restraunt with some of her friends
Glad to hear she is ok.
me too. Did anyone you know run?
Quote from: Birdbrain on April 15, 2013, 07:46:55 PM
Quote from: Xaol on April 15, 2013, 07:12:22 PM
Quote from: Birdbrain on April 15, 2013, 07:05:56 PM
My sister ran in the marathon. Luckily she finished two miunets before it happened, and was on her way to a restraunt with some of her friends
Glad to hear she is ok.
me too. Did anyone you know run?
Thankfully no. My sister's friend's dad was supposed to run (he always does) but due to his job he couldn't make it this year.
Quote from: Xaol on April 15, 2013, 08:20:27 PM
Quote from: Birdbrain on April 15, 2013, 07:46:55 PM
Quote from: Xaol on April 15, 2013, 07:12:22 PM
Quote from: Birdbrain on April 15, 2013, 07:05:56 PM
My sister ran in the marathon. Luckily she finished two miunets before it happened, and was on her way to a restraunt with some of her friends
Glad to hear she is ok.
me too. Did anyone you know run?
Thankfully no. My sister's friend's dad was supposed to run (he always does) but due to his job he couldn't make it this year.
He's lucky it was this year!
Quote from: Iandtormentor on April 15, 2013, 08:43:20 PM
Quote from: Xaol on April 15, 2013, 08:20:27 PM
Quote from: Birdbrain on April 15, 2013, 07:46:55 PM
Quote from: Xaol on April 15, 2013, 07:12:22 PM
Quote from: Birdbrain on April 15, 2013, 07:05:56 PM
My sister ran in the marathon. Luckily she finished two miunets before it happened, and was on her way to a restraunt with some of her friends
Glad to hear she is ok.
me too. Did anyone you know run?
Thankfully no. My sister's friend's dad was supposed to run (he always does) but due to his job he couldn't make it this year.
He's lucky it was this year!
Extremely lucky.
My old rugby coach was running in it. I heard that he is ok. Just a really crazy and messed up thing to think about.
Idk how anyOne could do such a thing
Quote from: Seth5000 on April 16, 2013, 07:15:55 AM
Idk how anyOne could do such a thing
Because some people are stupid, evil, destructive, angry little narcissists. It's really pathetic that such horrible people live in this world, and I will never understand how so many can lack empathy.
My heart goes out to the victims and their families. I hope the injured recover, there are too many fatalities already.
It's sickening, it puts ropes of knots in my stomach just thinking about it 😡
I think the Aroura Colorado shooter has set a bad trend Into motion. Maybe these people think of it as a f*****g contest. And whoever can cause the most mayhem wins. It's a stupid grab for attention because these people are so absorbed in themselves, that they want a quick way to be famous
At least that's my theory
Sadly it began much sooner than Aurora. Even before Columbine. There is an obsession with violence in our culture, that combines with a decline in parenting, discipline, and morality. Unfortunately, something needs to be done about that, which will never be able to be done at a 100% level.
Quote from: Gorzo on April 16, 2013, 07:16:11 PM
Sadly it began much sooner than Aurora. Even before Columbine. There is an obsession with violence in our culture, that combines with a decline in parenting, discipline, and morality. Unfortunately, something needs to be done about that, which will never be able to be done at a 100% level.
I can only hope that the increase in media coverage and public outcry will make the federal government pass legislation soon. Comprehensive background checks are a must.
Background checks for what? All of the stuff in the Boston bombs was household items that a cashier would never look twice at, unless you are thinking about background checks for gun purchases. I support checks but not the requirement of registering guns to their owners.
Unrelated to what I just said: what if the Anonymous group are staging these to attract attention to their agenda?
Quote from: Wackaman9001 on April 16, 2013, 09:36:49 PM
Unrelated to what I just said: what if the Anonymous group are staging these to attract attention to their agenda?
No
Quote from: #noided on April 16, 2013, 10:33:44 PM
Quote from: Wackaman9001 on April 16, 2013, 09:36:49 PM
Unrelated to what I just said: what if the Anonymous group are staging these to attract attention to their agenda?
No
Anonymous wouldn't harm innocents for attention, they're more along the lines of a Robin Hood archetype
Quote from: InfinitiveDivinity on April 16, 2013, 11:26:09 PM
Quote from: #noided on April 16, 2013, 10:33:44 PM
Quote from: Wackaman9001 on April 16, 2013, 09:36:49 PM
Unrelated to what I just said: what if the Anonymous group are staging these to attract attention to their agenda?
No
Anonymous wouldn't harm innocents for attention, they're more along the lines of a Robin Hood archetype
Precisely. Targetting the Boston Marathon doesn't really fir their MO either.
I think the responsible people shouldn't be named, shown, or spoken about. Too many get satisfaction out of being "famous".
Quote from: Nepentheceae on April 16, 2013, 11:46:40 PM
I think the responsible people shouldn't be named, shown, or spoken about. Too many get satisfaction out of being "famous".
This! They commit a heinous act and get their faces plastered across national tv and on the Internet. Too much recognition for scum.
Found out today that one of my relatives was there, luckily he and his friend finished 30 min prior to the detonation
Quote from: Xaol on April 16, 2013, 09:05:32 PM
Quote from: Gorzo on April 16, 2013, 07:16:11 PM
Sadly it began much sooner than Aurora. Even before Columbine. There is an obsession with violence in our culture, that combines with a decline in parenting, discipline, and morality. Unfortunately, something needs to be done about that, which will never be able to be done at a 100% level.
I can only hope that the increase in media coverage and public outcry will make the federal government pass legislation soon. Comprehensive background checks are a must.
Legislation? I thought blowing people up was already criminalised, no?
Quote from: Piotr on April 17, 2013, 05:03:53 AM
Quote from: Xaol on April 16, 2013, 09:05:32 PM
Quote from: Gorzo on April 16, 2013, 07:16:11 PM
Sadly it began much sooner than Aurora. Even before Columbine. There is an obsession with violence in our culture, that combines with a decline in parenting, discipline, and morality. Unfortunately, something needs to be done about that, which will never be able to be done at a 100% level.
I can only hope that the increase in media coverage and public outcry will make the federal government pass legislation soon. Comprehensive background checks are a must.
Legislation? I thought blowing people up was already criminalised, no?
That's true, but there are many more measures that should be in place; I was talking more about gun control in response to the Columbine/Aurora tragedies (which were both shootings) than I was about the bombings, which may or may not be related to gun control. I say this merely because the run was dedicated to Sandy Hook victims and one of the bombs was close to the families of victims.
I thought killing people with guns not in self defence was already criminalised?
America is still shaky on their policies
My band director ran, I'm glad to hear hes ok
Yea this was horrible.
I horrible tragic situations it is very important that we be level headed, and do not go throwing our freedoms away for safety. 9/11 was a tragic event, but the increased security has also unintended consequences.
Horrible things happen all the time, and it is usually not for obvious reasons. Bombs are illegal to use for murder, guns are illegal to use for murder - we can't thought police people or see crime in the future like Minority Report. We can't confiscate people's property and possessions, because without a right to your property then you have nothing. Something tells me that if you subject people to brutal background checks for gun ownership, shootings will still happen, the intention of keeping guns out of crazy people's hands will be no more easier, and you're allowing an outside entity have the power over your property.
No man should claim dominion over man, the same goes for the US Government. I'm not a gun toting wacko, I'm a socio-anarchist. Everyone has the right to their person and property - the Constitution does not GIVE you anything - you're born with those rights. People breaking those laws should be punished, with rehabilitation the goal. Some people cannot be rehabilitated so confinement is an answer.
Quote from: KangaRod on April 17, 2013, 11:28:06 AM
Shooting will not happen without guns it's simple.
How do you take illegal guns away from people who already own them though? If there's a will, there's a way. No matter what criminals will have a source for guns.
Unfortunately it seems as though Americans enjoy killing each other too much to change, it seems as though every couple months I hear about something violent happening down there and it's a huge tragedy, the whole country is shocked, Obama makes a "never again, we are going to fight this" speech, and a couple months later when everything has settled down another horrible tragedy happens, the biggest thing coming out of Canada recently was Amanda Todd and that other girl who killed themselves because they were bullied, when will this stop?
Quote from: InfinitiveDivinity on April 17, 2013, 11:35:11 AM
Quote from: KangaRod on April 17, 2013, 11:28:06 AM
Shooting will not happen without guns it's simple.
How do you take illegal guns away from people who already own them though? If there's a will, there's a way. No matter what criminals will have a source for guns.
To back up this point, here's a favorite of mine:
"Making guns illegal would stop shootings and gun violence? Man, we should make drugs illegal too!"
Clearly, making drugs illegal has not stopped drug use. I don't want to get off into a drug related tangent here, but I think it proves I.D.s point. Where there's a will theres a way.
Also, as this thread was intended for the bombings, my heart goes out to those who lost somebody because of this horrible event. I'm glad nobody on here had to experience losing a loved one because of it.
Quote from: KangaRod on April 17, 2013, 11:28:06 AM
Shooting will not happen without guns it's simple.
This is the most idiotic thing I have read in a long time.
I know we are talking guns and all....but this was a bombing. Whoever was responsible for this was just an awful person. They had no thought of who they were hurting, lacking connection to their victims. Who in their right mind thinks its ok to blow up a baby and grandmother? Not myself and I'm I'm sure most people are like this. Removal of weapons does not stop crazy people.
One of the only things that stop crazy people is being properly loved as a human being as they grow. If more people did their part in raising youth rather than scarring it, we would have less chaos. You can say, " but Muggy, it's the media! They play violent games!" Well hey, asshat parent/adult: you're the adult, raise a kid right, not lazy.
We all have very different lives and the one thing that most of the American attackers in any of these bombings shootings etc, are some strange eccentric guy we see every day in the streets. We as humans have to work as a society to ensure less flacka flakked people.
If TL for you:
Raise youth to not be crazy
Quote from: Muggywuggy on April 17, 2013, 01:07:32 PM
I know we are talking guns and all....but this was a bombing. Whoever was responsible for this was just an awful person. They had no thought of who they were hurting, lacking connection to their victims. Who in their right mind thinks its ok to blow up a baby and grandmother? Not myself and I'm I'm sure most people are like this. Removal of weapons does not stop crazy people.
One of the only things that stop crazy people is being properly loved as a human being as they grow. If more people did their part in raising youth rather than scarring it, we would have less chaos. You can say, " but Muggy, it's the media! They play violent games!" Well hey, asshat parent/adult: you're the adult, raise a kid right, not lazy.
We all have very different lives and the one thing that most of the American attackers in any of these bombings shootings etc, are some strange eccentric guy we see every day in the streets. We as humans have to work as a society to ensure less flacka flakked people.
If TL for you:
Raise youth to not be crazy
This! In the words of Louis CK: "Two people can't get married* just because YOU don't want to talk to your kid?"
*This is in the context of marriage, but the same principle can be applied to this conversation.
Quote from: #noided on April 17, 2013, 12:44:04 PM
Quote from: KangaRod on April 17, 2013, 11:28:06 AM
Shooting will not happen without guns it's simple.
This is the most idiotic thing I have read in a long time.
Technically it is true, you remove guns the shootings will stop. Problem is, they will simply turn into bombings or whatnot. Another problem is, it is not possible to remove guns anyway, like with alcohol or drugs.
I use iMtG Law to judge these kind of things: it would be illegal to outlaw guns under iMtG Law for a good bunch of logical reasons, last but maybe not least being that you cannot break law in prohibition of law breaking. Goal NEVER justifies the means.
Quote from: Piotr on April 17, 2013, 06:35:13 AM
I thought killing people with guns not in self defence was already criminalised?
It may be criminalised, but not nearly enough is done to try and prevent it in the first place, or to minimise it.
Quote from: Xaol on April 17, 2013, 02:52:21 PM
Quote from: Piotr on April 17, 2013, 06:35:13 AM
I thought killing people with guns not in self defence was already criminalised?
It may be criminalised, but not nearly enough is done to try and prevent it in the first place, or to minimise it.
I beg to differ. Way too much is done in unlawful prevention, and the problem is already minimal. US is a big country, I would bet that during that day many more people drowned in their baths, and they do it every day not once in a few months or less.
I saw a pic today of 2 little girls, one holding an assault rifle, the other holding a copy of Little Red Riding Hood, the caption on this pic read as follows: one of these children is holding something that has been banned in America to protect them, guess which one? Apparently LRRH is banned in American schools because there was a bottle of wine in her basket, wtf is wrong with people
Quote from: S717 on April 17, 2013, 05:33:58 PM
I saw a pic today of 2 little girls, one holding an assault rifle, the other holding a copy of Little Red Riding Hood, the caption on this pic read as follows: one of these children is holding something that has been banned in America to protect them, guess which one? Apparently LRRH is banned in American schools because there was a bottle of wine in her basket, wtf is wrong with people
We have so many banned books. Its ridiculous. Censoring of knowledge is a very dangerous thing.
Quote from: S717 on April 17, 2013, 05:33:58 PM
I saw a pic today of 2 little girls, one holding an assault rifle, the other holding a copy of Little Red Riding Hood, the caption on this pic read as follows: one of these children is holding something that has been banned in America to protect them, guess which one? Apparently LRRH is banned in American schools because there was a bottle of wine in her basket, wtf is wrong with people
We have so many banned books. Its ridiculous. Censoring of knowledge is a very dangerous thing.
Quote from: Piotr on April 17, 2013, 03:44:30 PM
Quote from: Xaol on April 17, 2013, 02:52:21 PM
Quote from: Piotr on April 17, 2013, 06:35:13 AM
I thought killing people with guns not in self defence was already criminalised?
It may be criminalised, but not nearly enough is done to try and prevent it in the first place, or to minimise it.
I beg to differ. Way too much is done in unlawful prevention, and the problem is already minimal. US is a big country, I would bet that during that day many more people drowned in their baths, and they do it every day not once in a few months or less.
That's true, but dying in your bathtub is a) something the government can't really regulate and b) shootings have the potential to kill huge amounts of people, so do bombings. There were two snipers who went around the DC area a few years ago shooting people. They were able to ride around killing people for a few days before being caught. This tells me that the government needs to do more to stop this from happening, and that means more regulation of who gets weapons or not.
There are a lot of complications with the gun control debate though.
First off, like many here have said, banning guns doesn't stop psychos from getting their hands on them. Many of the big gun violence events in recent years, including columbine and sandy hook, were done with weapons that did not belong to the shooters. Besides, the gun is just a tool - it's the person that's killing, and that's what needs to be dealt with. A killer is going to find a way to kill - you take away his gun, he gets a bomb. Or a 747. Or a hatchet. Or their bare hands. We need to stop gawking at the tools and methods they use to hurt people and instead start working at the brain and mental issues that are causing these psychos to be created and motivates them to pick up these tools to hurt others in the first place.
2nd, this whole background checks thing... Criminal background checks to prevent violent offenders from getting guns? Umm, why aren't we already doing this? As for the comprehensive mental background checks, well...it won't work. How would you determine mental wellness? Who determines what qualifies? Do they look at records to see if the person has been seeing a therapist? Doctor-patient privelage prevents that doctor from discussing your issues with them. So...anyone on certain meds or seeing a psychiatrist is banned from owning a weapon? I mean, sure, I would like it if we could keep guns out of the hands of the criminally insane. But how does one determine dangerous mental incapacity under the current system without violating people's rights?
I don't get where people are getting their info, I've purchased two firearms in my life and I have gone through 2 background checks regarding my criminal history, you must provide I.D to prove who you say you are. These where at gun shows in Iowa, and I know other states have different laws on purchasing but you cannot just waltz into Walmart and purchase a baby killer 5000 without a background check and getting put on a waiting list.
Even purchases from the Internet must be sent to a legal FFL liscense holder and previously mentioned background checks for them to happen so that scratches that out. It's not like people can't get around this, but in most cases guns come into irresponsible hands illegally.
Quote from: Vyse on April 17, 2013, 07:42:45 PM
I don't get where people are getting their info, I've purchased two firearms in my life and I have gone through 2 background checks regarding my criminal history, you must provide I.D to prove who you say you are. These where at gun shows in Iowa, and I know other states have different laws on purchasing but you cannot just waltz into Walmart and purchase a baby killer 5000 without a background check and getting put on a waiting list.
Even purchases from the Internet must be sent to a legal FFL liscense holder and previously mentioned background checks for them to happen so that scratches that out. It's not like people can't get around this, but in most cases guns come into irresponsible hands illegally.
False.
http://www.nola.com/.politics./index.ssf/2013/04/senate_rejects_effort_to_expan.html
In the great state of Louisiana (my home state,) background checks are only required when purchasing from a licensed dealer. You can buy guns all day online and at gun shows, no questions asked and without being placed on a waiting list.
Quote from: Mikefrompluto on April 17, 2013, 08:09:34 PM
Quote from: Vyse on April 17, 2013, 07:42:45 PM
I don't get where people are getting their info, I've purchased two firearms in my life and I have gone through 2 background checks regarding my criminal history, you must provide I.D to prove who you say you are. These where at gun shows in Iowa, and I know other states have different laws on purchasing but you cannot just waltz into Walmart and purchase a baby killer 5000 without a background check and getting put on a waiting list.
Even purchases from the Internet must be sent to a legal FFL liscense holder and previously mentioned background checks for them to happen so that scratches that out. It's not like people can't get around this, but in most cases guns come into irresponsible hands illegally.
False.
http://www.nola.com/.politics./index.ssf/2013/04/senate_rejects_effort_to_expan.html
In the great state of Louisiana (my home state,) background checks are only required when purchasing from a licensed dealer. You can buy guns all day online and at gun shows, no questions asked and without being placed on a waiting list.
Did you read my full post? As I stated I was speaking for gun laws in Iowa, but you don't know what your talking about when it comes to buying online or at gun shows. Per ATF guidelines all licensed FFL sellers MUST perform a background check. The only exception is private dealers, of which there is little control over(and what the article was referring to for the unrestricted sales at gun shows) You cannot just order a gun online and have it shipped to your door (unless you own an FFL license) you must have it delivered to someone who owns an FFL license. I don't know each states full rules, like in California you can't even buy off the Internet, I was speaking for Iowa, but all states have the ground rules set by the ATF.
I'm also not going to turn this discussion into guns when it was for the victims in Boston, so I'll just leave it at this.
More people die in car accidents per day then die in gun violence. That is besides the point. The probability of you dying from gun violence are extremely low. I think it is the fear that sells the story. Mostly all of us, and most people you've ever met will never experience anything substantial in your entire existence. That is a good thing. Bad things happen all of the time, and of course we should attempt to prevent them - but we shouldn't strip people of their rights.
Odds are your child will never be kidnapped, you won't get shot at in a drive by, you won't die of bird flu. In some places in the world - these things are a daily occurrence and very real. It's sort of narcissistic, or at least misinformed, to believe these awful things will touch your life. When they happen the worst types of emotions come out. We shouldn't be saying in absolute terms humans are awful, and Americans are violent maniacs, when something like this is as unlikely as winning the lottery - and exceedingly so. We've got 350 million people in this country, and a certain few people are profoundly unlucky.
Can things be done? Of course. But the unintended consequences of doing it may be worse then the problem it's attempting to address. Once you lose something, you never get it back. No politician can ever run on the platform of de-regulating guns, because "what about the kids?" or "if that was your kid, you wouldn't be saying that." In the face of tragedy you need to focus on the problem - not the gut reaction.
Does anyone honestly think anyone supporting gun rights wishes those kids were dead? No. They're supporting their rights to retain their property. It isn't about allowing every nut job to get a gun. Gun violence is a very real thing, and something that should be addressed on a macro other then "take it away, and it won't be a problem." There are much larger fish to fry, violence is symptomatic of a bigger problem.
Quote from: Vyse on April 17, 2013, 09:04:16 PM
Quote from: Mikefrompluto on April 17, 2013, 08:09:34 PM
Quote from: Vyse on April 17, 2013, 07:42:45 PM
I don't get where people are getting their info, I've purchased two firearms in my life and I have gone through 2 background checks regarding my criminal history, you must provide I.D to prove who you say you are. These where at gun shows in Iowa, and I know other states have different laws on purchasing but you cannot just waltz into Walmart and purchase a baby killer 5000 without a background check and getting put on a waiting list.
Even purchases from the Internet must be sent to a legal FFL liscense holder and previously mentioned background checks for them to happen so that scratches that out. It's not like people can't get around this, but in most cases guns come into irresponsible hands illegally.
False.
http://www.nola.com/.politics./index.ssf/2013/04/senate_rejects_effort_to_expan.html
In the great state of Louisiana (my home state,) background checks are only required when purchasing from a licensed dealer. You can buy guns all day online and at gun shows, no questions asked and without being placed on a waiting list.
Did you read my full post? As I stated I was speaking for gun laws in Iowa, but you don't know what your talking about when it comes to buying online or at gun shows. Per ATF guidelines all licensed FFL sellers MUST perform a background check. The only exception is private dealers, of which there is little control over(and what the article was referring to for the unrestricted sales at gun shows) You cannot just order a gun online and have it shipped to your door (unless you own an FFL license) you must have it delivered to someone who owns an FFL license. I don't know each states full rules, like in California you can't even buy off the Internet, I was speaking for Iowa, but all states have the ground rules set by the ATF.
I'm also not going to turn this discussion into guns when it was for the victims in Boston, so I'll just leave it at this.
Did you even read MY full post? I was stating the regulations for Louisiana. Regardless, im not trying to argue with someone over the internet. As you said, this is about the unfortunate Boston bombing.