Touchy Subjects #1: Gay Marriage *NFSW

Quote from: Dudecore on July 18, 2013, 09:18:41 AM

Marriage isn't for family raising. Plenty of people raise families unmarried, plenty get married and never raise families. it is certainly advantageous to be married, incase you die, want to jointly file taxes together, have other tax deductions. It's not the governments place to be withholding the rights of citizens based on nothing but a poorly written contract.

Ok, now that I look at it I didn't say what I wanted to.

Marriage was created for families.  And when It was created it was so kids could have a stable environment as well as the parents living with the person they wanted too.

when a gay couple get married, that are fullfilling marriage in the point of living with the person the want to, however, they are pretty much saying SCREW YOU KIDS!  We can't make you, and we can't raise you balanced, so ha ha, which is mocking that aspect of marriage.

The government has added benefits to make people want to get married to raise familys and try and keep them together, thus lowering the rates of divorced couples and broken families (supposedly.  I don't think it works)  and if gay couples want those benefits, THEY CAN GET THEM without making a mockery of marriage.

Marriage wasnt intended to raise families. It replaced the dowry system. I don't think gay marriage is an attempt to slight the "family values" you appear to think its doing. It's about equal protection under the law.

Financial hardship is the leading cause of divorce by a huge margin. It is also the leading cause of same sex couples splitting as well. If the divorce rate wasnt constantly hovering around 43%+ I'd say you may have a point. In "no fault" divorce states seems to be trending much higher.

Marriage for most people is a mistake, and further more the costs associated with a split cause people who have no business staying together to do so for financial reasons. One could make a leap (as I will do right here) and suggest that marriage is actually BAD for families and children. If you've ever grown up in a loveless home, or your parents ever divorced or dealt with their arguing and resentment for one another - it is because the system is horrible coercive.

Marriage makes a mockery of itself, and it's being tied to having children, or as some sacred institution that is to be admired just isn't the truth of what legal marriage is. I'd never get married and could be with a single partner forever. But for me to be able to have any of the benefits of marriage, id have to sign a stupid piece of paper and accept a new set of consequences for doing so. It goes against the very nature of love.

In conclusion, marriage goes against the very definition of families and love - because it was never meant to appeal to either. It's a legal document attached to a religious ceremony. The same ceremony which was adapted, and reworded from the same dowry ceremonies.

I don't know what I'm looking to read in Genesis to support your point, but I'd be willing to do so nonetheless if provided with a place to start.

If folks are advocating that same sex couples be married in churches, then I've previously stated they have no business doing so. They're private institutions that are allowed to deny them. I believe when folks speak of "gay marriage", they're speaking of the legal term. They would like equal protection under the laws.

Personal beliefs aside, I don't know why Christians do very un-Christian things in certain situations. I grew up a believer, and saw others not "treating others as they'd like to be treated". It triggered me looking into it further and eventually have no good reasons to believe anymore. If same sex couples would like to get married, who cares?

So much as the state cannot tell churches to wed same sex couples, so should churches not tell states to not provide protections to same sex couples.

I don't think gay marriage is an attempt to slight the "family values" you appear to think its doing. It's about equal protection under the law.

You could argue that civil partnerships are about equal protection under the law, but you would still be wrong. Gay marriage is an attempt at destroing the western civilisation, civilisation based on Christian values.

It is part of the bigger problem of ever growing state. Let me repeat what I said earlier in this thread; we wouldn't have sexual deviants marriage problem if state didnt interfere*. FFFFFFFUUUUU, government.

* there should be no such thing as government provided marriage of any kind, and marriage shouldn't exist in the law at all. Whether someone is married or not should be irrelevant to how the law judges a case, otherwise by definition people are not equal under the law. Look at iMtG law, we don't give damn if you are married, coloured, deviant, foetus, or whatever. If you are human and victim of crime, iMtG law protects you. For the law there should only be two categories of people: victims and criminals, everything else is superfluous and wrong.

You could argue that civil partnerships are about equal protection under the law, but you would still be wrong. Gay marriage is an attempt at destroing the western civilisation, civilisation based on Christian values.

Is that a bit of hyperbole on your part? You never struck me as the type to actually buy into that sort of doomsday prophecy. It shouldnt matter how the country was founded. And I'm all for removing government from all aspects of our lives, lets remove marriage from everyone.

You could argue that civil partnerships are about equal protection under the law, but you would still be wrong. Gay marriage is an attempt at destroing the western civilisation, civilisation based on Christian values.

Western civilization is not defined by the moral views of any specific religious denomination, at least in the US. We were founded as a secular state, not to be influenced by any religious entity, and the attempt to force your religious morales into any aspect of government, including marriage (as a legal partnership, not the specific rites/ceremonies of any particular group) is fundamentally wrong and violates the principles of separation of church and state.

No one is forcing any church or other religious place of worship to host same-sex marriages, and the issue should not be tied to some delusion of moral wrongdoing by certain religious groups. It is purely a legal issue and right that religious zealots have no business in dictating.

In case the above doesn't make it clear, I am in favor of legalizing gay marriage.

Genisis doesn't really talk about marriage but in Hebrews it mentions it heavily as being a sacred thing. And yes marriage was original made for families, but not the kind your thinking of it's to conjoin two different families together creating stronger tribes and stronger bonds between people with different backgrounds. But it has always been sacred and a religious thing not to be handled by the government! You're right it does violate the seperation of church and state! The state is at fault tho not the church!

Adam was intimate with his wife Eve, and she conceived and gave birth to Cain. She said, “I have had a male child with the Lord ’s help.” (Genesis 4:1 HCSB)

?
Don't get me wrong I'm against Gay Marriage but I want you to be on the right page when you represent the bible..

Well what demomination are you? I'm Christian Baptist and the translation that the BCA has followed is the Holman Christian Standard Bible

Quote from: Piotr on July 19, 2013, 04:26:01 AM

You could argue that civil partnerships are about equal protection under the law, but you would still be wrong. Gay marriage is an attempt at destroing the western civilisation, civilisation based on Christian values.

Is that a bit of hyperbole on your part? You never struck me as the type to actually buy into that sort of doomsday prophecy. It shouldnt matter how the country was founded. And I'm all for removing government from all aspects of our lives, lets remove marriage from everyone.

Western civilisation is based on Christian ethics, it is being destroyed and replaced by cultural Marxism, the ethics of which is evil. It is a practical thing that happens in real world. As you know I do not subscribe to the idea of God that much, but I have a lot of respect for Christianity and its values. Half of the bloody iMtG law is copy pasted from them

Yes, I advocate removing marriage from government power.

Quote from: Piotr on July 19, 2013, 04:26:01 AM

You could argue that civil partnerships are about equal protection under the law, but you would still be wrong. Gay marriage is an attempt at destroing the western civilisation, civilisation based on Christian values.

Western civilization is not defined by the moral views of any specific religious denomination, at least in the US. We were founded as a secular state, not to be influenced by any religious entity, and the attempt to force your religious morales into any aspect of government, including marriage (as a legal partnership, not the specific rites/ceremonies of any particular group) is fundamentally wrong and violates the principles of separation of church and state.

No one is forcing any church or other religious place of worship to host same-sex marriages, and the issue should not be tied to some delusion of moral wrongdoing by certain religious groups. It is purely a legal issue and right that religious zealots have no business in dictating.

In case the above doesn't make it clear, I am in favor of legalizing gay marriage.

There's nothing religious about Christian values. iMtG law is a secular law based on Christian values. Western civilisation is based on Christian values.

Western civilisation was created upon Do not steal. That is being replaced with .loving. socialism and wealth redistribution, which is stealing. Do not murder is being replaced with abortion. Etc.

I think in the case of the golden rule and such, those were lessons adopted because they make sense. Christianity can't claim to have written that statement so much as they can't claim "thou shalt not murder" is an idea intrinsic to the teachings of Judaism. It's just a good idea.

The morality of the bible is quite suspect, and in some cases downright immoral. The "great" lessons it teaches happen to be ones that don't need teaching. The foundation of our country is what it is, it doesn't actually tell us what is right or wrong about it. Afterall, societies do not suffer - people do.

Sure, I do not say they have a monopoly on that or they invented it. Confucianism was before Christianity and they had golden rule too. Historically western civilisation is not based on Confucianism, it is based on ethics of Christianity. Btw, the other half of iMtG law is in direct contradiction to Christianity. Christianity teaches forgiveness, and that when someone hits one part of your face you should turn the other part to be hit. Rubbish, .loving. punish the bastard, deal some revenge!