What do you believe in?

[Piotr]

Many here still think it is a "choice".

It quite clearly is, unless you can convince me that gay people have no free will and are just animals ruled by instincts. To clarify my point, catholic priests are straight or gay but they do not follow their instincts, they do not have sex. They have choice the same way as gay people have.

[Guypocolypse]

Lol I go to a preaching school in Alabama. Counting staff and students there are less than 50 people. 5 of us play magic, and we are considering starting our own team.

You should start it

[Kareason]

Many here still think it is a "choice".

It quite clearly is, unless you can convince me that gay people have no free will and are just animals ruled by instincts. To clarify my point, catholic priests are straight or gay but they do not follow their instincts, they do not have sex. They have choice the same way as gay people have.

I do not wish to try to convince anyone either way. I do believe it is an in born trait for the majority and asking them to deny that would be no different the asking me to dye my hair because it's brown. I respect your right to have your view on it even if our views disagree.

[Piotr]

No, it would be like denying cleptomaniacs their right to steal. The fact that they were born this way doesn't mean it's right to do it.

[Fenster]

Many here still think it is a "choice".

It quite clearly is, unless you can convince me that gay people have no free will and are just animals ruled by instincts. To clarify my point, catholic priests are straight or gay but they do not follow their instincts, they do not have sex. They have choice the same way as gay people have.

Its as much of a choice as a fetish of some sort.
For the purpose of demonstration:
A straight man has a hat fetish. He'd rather be with a lady who wears hats.
Pretty simple, no?
Alas he can choose to be with a woman without a hat. But he cant choose not to want a woman with a hat.

[Piotr]

Christians don't care about that. They care about whether gay people choose to commit sin or not. It's not a sin to be gay, it's a sin to give in to temptation. I'm astounded how often this is misunderstood.

[Fenster]

Christians don't care about that. They care about whether gay people choose to commit sin or not. It's not a sin to be gay, it's a sin to give in to temptation. I'm astounded how often this is misunderstood.

Oh im sorry i didnt really follow the subject closely i just wanted to clarify the logic.
I understand and somewhat sympathize with "christian values" in that sense.

[Kareason]

No, it would be like denying cleptomaniacs their right to steal. The fact that they were born this way doesn't mean it's right to do it.

Please allow me to clarify. I do draw the line at illegal activities or things that hurt others. What two consenting adults do in their own "personal time" does not affect me. I was raised Baptist so I understand the rational, I just disagree with it.

[Phat Max]

A book I've found very useful recently:
Mere Christianity: C.S. Lewis

Also, not as readily available, but another pretty useful resource:
The Truth Project (Video Series)

A quote (not exact)

"If there is no hope for us after death, why would we become horribly aware of this fact? For every desire man has, there is way to fulfill it. Therefore, I reason that we have a desire for hope because it exists."

@ Piotr: Well spoken. Everyone has their crosses to bear. No one is perfect, or can be, but the important thing is that we try.

[Dudecore]

Many here still think it is a "choice".

It quite clearly is, unless you can convince me that gay people have no free will and are just animals ruled by instincts. To clarify my point, catholic priests are straight or gay but they do not follow their instincts, they do not have sex. They have choice the same way as gay people have.

In a person to person conversation I can make a case for how free will doesn't exist, and isn't compatible with human experience and everything we know about the central nervous system.

But not conducive for a message board that I type with my iPhone.

[Moneekahh]

Another atheist here!

It makes me so sad that people still believe that being gay is a choice.  Google "gay hate crimes" or "gay man commits suicide" and tell me again how it's a a choice. Or tell me how you chose that you were attracted to the gender that attracts you...

[Piotr]

The same way as I choose not to tell you what I think about your ability to understand written word.

[Piotr]

In a person to person conversation I can make a case for how free will doesn't exist, and isn't compatible with human experience and everything we know about the central nervous system.

And I can prove that kind of case wrong *shrug*

[Piotr]

What two consenting adults do in their own "personal time" does not affect me.

Couldnt agree more. Christians do not have problem with that, they have a problem with people publicly and aggressively advocating their sinful ways as norm. Whether those people are thieves, murderers, sodomites or any other kind of sinners, doesn't really matter.

[BlackJester]

I do not wish to try to convince anyone either way. I do believe it is an in born trait for the majority and asking them to deny that would be no different the asking me to dye my hair because it's brown. I respect your right to have your view on it even if our views disagree.

Until I hear of the discovery of the "Gay gene" or "gay chemical process in the brain" I still think that the answer is inconclusive.  We don't know why gay people feel the way they do.

However, as agents of free will, (assuming anyone actually HAS free will) then they have control over their behavior, just like everyone else.  You can either argue that "gayness" is an internal desire/interest, or as an external action, but these are different things.