Elesh Norn Question

[Jdogtoocool]

So say my opponent has an elesh Norn out on the field and I cast a {phyrexian metamorph}, does my PM still clear their side of the field or do they both get destroyed before the PM hits the field?

[Kuberr]

Both die

[Coffee Vampire]

Yes because it enters the battlefield. Then as a state-based action it is removed.

(yes to you killing all their weak stuff)

[Kuberr]

Yes because it enters the battlefield. Then as a state-based action it is removed.

(yes to you killing all their weak stuff)

I don't think this is right.

You can't have two of the same ledgendaries out at one time. And when you do. It kills them both. I thinks it's automatic. No stack.

[scarsabrex]

Yes because it enters the battlefield. Then as a state-based action it is removed.

(yes to you killing all their weak stuff)

I don't think this is right.

You can't have two of the same ledgendaries out at one time. And when you do. It kills them both. I thinks it's automatic. No stack.

legendary rule is a state based action
creatures dying to 0 toughness is also a state based action. when the metalmorph enters there is a very real moment when there are two elesh's on the board each debuffing opposing sides. so anythig with 0 toughness an both eleshes die, nothing on the stack.

[Kuberr]

Yes because it enters the battlefield. Then as a state-based action it is removed.

(yes to you killing all their weak stuff)

I don't think this is right.

You can't have two of the same ledgendaries out at one time. And when you do. It kills them both. I thinks it's automatic. No stack.

legendary rule is a state based action
creatures dying to 0 toughness is also a state based action. when the metalmorph enters there is a very real moment when there are two elesh's on the board each debuffing opposing sides. so anythig with 0 toughness an both eleshes die, nothing on the stack.

I would like to see the rule for this. My judge feels otherwise.

[Greg54js]

Hes right. State based actions are done in layers so checking for legendary is the last thing state based actions do. Power and toughness changing effects go first, followed by checking for new toughness of 0 followed by the two elesh's being legendary ad killing each other

[scarsabrex]

state based actions don't go in layers they all happen at the same time.

rule 704.5=list of state based actions
704.5f=0 toughness rule
704.5k=legend rule.

[Coffee Vampire]

Yes I know this because I often use {Forbidden Orchard} to give people 1/1s while I have {Suture Priest} and {Curse of Death's Hold} out.

Even though the 1/1 dies to a state based action (similar to the legend rule), they enter the battlefield so my opponent loses one life

[Greg54js]

state based actions don't go in layers they all happen at the same time.

rule 704.5=list of state based actions
704.5f=0 toughness rule
704.5k=legend rule.

Yeah I realized layers was the wrong word after I posted *facepalm*

[BadLuckIrish]

i dont think youd be able to kill any of there stuff with ur Cloned Norn in that split secomd. Simply because thier norn will buff thier side..

[Greg54js]

i dont think youd be able to kill any of there stuff with ur Cloned Norn in that split secomd. Simply because thier norn will buff thier side..

Oh.. Right.. Seems we all forgot about the buffing side of elesh. Thanks for the bad luck, Irish :p

[Sagemaster]

i dont think youd be able to kill any of there stuff with ur Cloned Norn in that split secomd. Simply because thier norn will buff thier side..

Nice catch

[Coffee Vampire]

Yes but this is in theory!

For instance, his opponent could have a 0/0 primordial hydra out thtlat was played afyer elesh...but yes you are right. It would be pretty hard lol

[Knew45]

i dont think youd be able to kill any of there stuff with ur Cloned Norn in that split secomd. Simply because thier norn will buff thier side..

except anything with origional toughness 0