.politics.

[BlackJester]

And then the abortion topic came up.

Let's all take a deep breath now...

I too am fascinated by the topic of "When does life begin?"

Goto Life.

[Piotr]

Hitler ran in the mid to late 20's as a national socialist. He lost. He ran again still as a national socialist. And he won.

You may call it fascism if you want, but fascism IS dictatorship. National socialism was their way of calling a political party. Like republican or democrat for the united states.

My point is that to call Hitler a socialist is incorrect.

His Economic system was socialist, so I'm not sure what you mean. NSDAP was not just the label, they were totally left wing. Far right is libertarian in my vocabulary, nothing to do with Hitler.

Far right/fascism=government ran by business

Far left/socialism=business ran by government

Hitler's National Socialist Party is really both of these mashed together IMO.  I know he studied Marxist Socialism when he wrote Mein Kampf (My Struggle) in prison.  But he was not strictly a Marxist socialist by any means.  His totalitarian empire practiced both facist and socialist aspects.......really the worst of both.

In Hitler's socialist Germany the business was not running the country but were told what to do. Nazis come short of nationalising them but the difference was minute, they left the 'private' labels in but really the big business was run by the state. Far right = libertarian = just a little short of no government at all (anarchy). What is being described as far right by most of the people these days is fascism or national socialism, which are both systems where state has all the power and the individuals (or businesses at that) can do nothing as the state tells them what to do and how to live. Hence they are often named totalitarian, as the state extorts total control over people. This has nothing to do with far right.

Think about it this way, the more freedom the individual has and the less power the government, the more right wing the system is. Hence libertarian system is on the far right, totalitarian systems such as national socialism, fascism and communism are on the far left. It's as simple as that, actually.

[BlackJester]

Think about it this way, the more freedom the individual has and the less power the government, the more right wing the system is. Hence libertarian system is on the far right, totalitarian systems such as national socialism, fascism and communism are on the far left. It's as simple as that, actually.

Well put, well put.

By-the-by, where on this definition of left and right would you put this forum?  I personally want to give members as much freedom as possible, falling just shy to respect other members.

[Jbombard51]

I'd not label it as either, but more of an open forum where we can share our ideals and perspectives.  If it were to be labeled, then minded people of one side or the other may be inclined to not input making it either MSNBC or Fox News lol.

[cltrn81]

I disagree, left wing is more aligned with the people, unions, and the labor movement.  Fascism is against unions to the point that strikes under a fascist state are a crime.  Fascism really is hard to define as left wing or right wing since they are all across the board with their policies.

Also, to call liberitarian only far right is a fallacy as well since the very definition of liberalism involves sudden change......the far right are ultra conservatives who do not want change.

With that said there is a distinction between left and right libertarians.  A left libertarian supports social changes that benefit the people.  A right libertarian supports big business changes that give rich people more tax breaks.

[Jbombard51]

With that said there is a distinction between left and right libertarians.  A left libertarian supports social changes that benefit the people.  A right libertarian supports big business changes that give rich people more tax breaks.

If you're implying left libs only care about social changes to help people then that is false.  Offering programs that COULD help people would be more accurate - since you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink (although after awhile it sure gets thirsty). Point being in one example; look at when the Governator passed a bill allowing EBT recipients to use their cards at ATM machines in California -- how many millions got used inappropriately in casinos, strip clubs and the etc?  "helping" people also means not enabling bad behavior; the old teach a man to fish saying and all. 

[cltrn81]

With that said there is a distinction between left and right libertarians.  A left libertarian supports social changes that benefit the people.  A right libertarian supports big business changes that give rich people more tax breaks.

If you're implying left libs only care about social changes to help people then that is false.  Offering programs that COULD help people would be more accurate - since you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink (although after awhile it sure gets thirsty). Point being in one example; look at when the Governator passed a bill allowing EBT recipients to use their cards at ATM machines in California -- how many millions got used inappropriately in casinos, strip clubs and the etc?  "helping" people also means not enabling bad behavior; the old teach a man to fish saying and all.

Obviously I cannot define each entity in entirety.....I was speaking rather broad just to point out there are liberals on complete opposite sides of the spectrum.....therefore one could not simply say a libertarian is specifically left or right.

[Sagemaster]

The difference?

The US is not a theocracy in one, but a ticket to office.

It's close enough...remember all the upheaval with Obama's middle name? "Oh he's a Muslim he must be impeached!" Etc.

[BlackJester]

I'd not label it as either, but more of an open forum where we can share our ideals and perspectives.  If it were to be labeled, then minded people of one side or the other may be inclined to not input making it either MSNBC or Fox News lol.

We mod's have to decide how much freedom members can have on the forum before we intervene with punishment (banning, censoring, etc).  Like it or not, we here have a small/narrow form of government.

I'd like to give you all as much freedom to do and say what you all feel.  But I also want to protect other members from attack or obscenity.   

[Jbombard51]

Well one good rule to follow is that hate speech isn't free speech.  That's pretty much my personal rule -- whenever someone is speaking down on me or is obviously rageful ( passive or aggressive) I know to just hit the ignore button in my mind the only things that aggravate me are the IRS, people whom abuse the defenseless , attacks on my family, and any reality TV show lol. 

[Piotr]

I disagree, left wing is more aligned with the people, unions, and the labor movement.  Fascism is against unions to the point that strikes under a fascist state are a crime.  Fascism really is hard to define as left wing or right wing since they are all across the board with their policies.

Also, to call liberitarian only far right is a fallacy as well since the very definition of liberalism involves sudden change......the far right are ultra conservatives who do not want change.

With that said there is a distinction between left and right libertarians.  A left libertarian supports social changes that benefit the people.  A right libertarian supports big business changes that give rich people more tax breaks.

You seem to be confusing a lot of things. My definition is much simpler and makes perfect sense. Left libertarian is a nice example of an oxymoron, btw. Let's agree to disagree as we seem unable to agree on the dictionary, and I'm not gonna budge as I've studied .politics. for the last 20 years or so.

[Piotr]

Think about it this way, the more freedom the individual has and the less power the government, the more right wing the system is. Hence libertarian system is on the far right, totalitarian systems such as national socialism, fascism and communism are on the far left. It's as simple as that, actually.

Well put, well put.

By-the-by, where on this definition of left and right would you put this forum?  I personally want to give members as much freedom as possible, falling just shy to respect other members.

I'm with you