Lands in front of spells

[Kaalia with haste]

A cheater is gonna cheat. It doesn't matter what you do.

True, but my ownly experience with cheating at mtg has been from a land forward player.

Correlation != causation

[MuggyWuggy]

People who get mad because they don't pay attention to board state is silly, it's like - I count my caryatid towards a land and stack it nearby, people forget about it and attack when I can block with caryatid - is it my fault you're not paying attention to board state so you misplay? I think not

Hiding info is one thing, but arranging your board to strategically help you isn't against the rules. If you play tempo or control, making false tells is apart of the play style, and people shouldn't be upset just because they misread information that is clearly available


And if you play control or a deck with tokens, your play area always gets overloaded

[Kaylesh]

A cheater is gonna cheat. It doesn't matter what you do.

True, but my ownly experience with cheating at mtg has been from a land forward player.

Correlation != causation

Can only agree. I was raised on lands first. It was the way to play @ 4th/5th edition when I started. I myself never consciously cheated. (I do sometimes misplay, but who doesn't in long sessions).
When I returned after being absent for quite some years, lands back was the way to play, and I liked it. No more reaching over your stuff to tap your lands. Then again, when I see a card I don't know, I stop my opponent to ask. One player I met steamrolled without me knowing what he was doing exactly, and I will not play (casually) with him again. (He was tapping and untapping elves left and right, drawing, chaining things like: I do this this this draw 20, have mana equal to triple the elves on the field so play this this this attack you die..)
Thing is. If you're not clear about anything on the board, stop, clarify. Ask to be handed the card so you can read it (had the same guy claim opponent on a card instead of all players). Where the lands are, and how the cards are positioned, should not interfere with your understanding and being able to follow the board state. If it does, when casual, ask to change. When tournament, ask for a Judge. You should, at all times, be able to know the legitimacy of your opponents actions.
(That's why you reveal when searching for a specific card before putting it in a hidden zone eg). If you can't, your opponent should rectify that. (Your opponent piles his lands, says I tap all for 10, ask him to spread them out if you're unsure he has 10. He should stop and explain.)
This way, you can catch (hopefully honest) misplays and know what is happening, instead of having your mind wonder about what is happening.

Lands front, center, back. It should NOT be an issue to change play style if your opponent can't follow it.

[Indianslayer]

I dislike it because I started/and am used to playing where lands are in the back, and everything has its certain zone. But I will still play somebody who does play with lands in front. If it's a tabletop game, I get a little more frustrated because my eyes are not 20/20. Also, I'm sorry muggy, but your way of putting a mana dork in you land zone is technically not illegal, but it would be a common curtesy to put it in the same zone you would put creatures (at least I think) because when I am attacking, I normally don't take a look at the land zone for blocking creatures.
And that's my take on all this

[Kaylesh]

I dislike it because I started/and am used to playing where lands are in the back, and everything has its certain zone. But I will still play somebody who does play with lands in front. If it's a tabletop game, I get a little more frustrated because my eyes are not 20/20. Also, I'm sorry muggy, but your way of putting a mana dork in you land zone is technically not illegal, but it would be a common curtesy to put it in the same zone you would put creatures (at least I think) because when I am attacking, I normally don't take a look at the land zone for blocking creatures.
And that's my take on all this

Personally I keep utility creatures in the back and combat creatures in front. I realize in pro play this could give clues as to "value" creatures, but at least I won't forget the utility parts or chump with my mana dork instead of with my vanilla..

[MuggyWuggy]

Get glasses if your eyes Are not 20/20

If you fail to read available information because you need a certain layout; that's not your opponents fault

[MuggyWuggy]

It's like saying that arranging a caryatid with 1 blue and one colorless land is not appropriate, but yet that formation allows a false sense of a counter may be imminent, which keeps a player from casting a spell

[Codester1991]

It bugs me a little bit ill play through it. I do admit certain people can be sneaky with having an arm hovering over an enchantment or creature when lands are upfront but it is you're responsibility to know the board state. Then again at the same time it's easy for a player to hide their mana as well with an arm but the difference is you can say "mana available" fairly simple to see and hear it, there's not really any sayings that go like that towards creatures, enchantments, artifacts, etc., but once again it's your responsibility to know board state.

[Mattao19]

I think I can say this safely for lands front ppl but we do it due to comfort not for sketchy reasons. I do it mainly bc I play very little nonland permanents so I like to have the space to lean/put my hand

[LinkCelestrial]

The problem is that most lands up front players do what most people do and rest their hands on the table. Normally you're simply covering your lands, not a huge deal. Lands up front covers permanents when they rest their hands like that.

You say that we should be observant and pay attention to board state. I say /it shouldn't take any extra effort/. People forgot stuff and read cards wrong, it's part of magic. But putting your lands up front, for the right or wrong reasons, gives you an advantage. /Especially/ against inexperienced and shy players.

That being said I'll play with you if you have lands up front. I give people the benefit of the doubt. I'm observant enough to figure stuff out and I have a knack for memorizing cards without trying. I dislike lands out front, but most people do it simply because they're used to it, not to cheat. At the end of the day I just watch you more. Besides, who am I to deny you comfort? I can handle it.

[Mattao19]

I don't lean or put put my hand ontop of any permanents I'm not an idiot lol I make sure everything is visible and as I said before sometimes I flip my cards if I know the opponent is inexperienced. I make sure everything is normal

[griffin131]

Covering cards is never good, wether it's lands or other permanents. 

Does it really take extra effort to read a board state when permanents are 4" farther from you?

Would you have the same complaint if they played everything as far back as possible - so non land permanents would be about the same distance as lands in front, but lands behind that?

[mickeven]

I think that as long as you are not covering any thing with your arms, covering a mana dork with a land, or maliciously diverting attention from something to cheat like the guy from the comments before you should be fine. Just dont be a dick. let people see what you got, explain if the person is not experienced, and dont take advantage of others.

[Mr_Fahrenheit]

The whole point of the rule is not to make it easier on your opponent, but easier for people watching the game to understand. If there is a uniform, LOGICAL layout then even people who dont understand the game's intricacies will find it easier to understand what's going on. And isnt that what we all want? The game being more alluring for non players so the game can grow? And that the game looks like it is aesthetically pleasing, and neat and tidy?

As far as being logical goes, 99% of the time it is your other permanents that interact with your opponent and their permanents, especially but not limited to combat. That is all much easier to organise when they are in close proximity. Not separated by a bunch of cards that do nothing but turn sideways. Ever watch a Yugioh game? I know nothing about the game, but they have to set their board up in a certain way and I can figure out whats what because of that. Magic board states can be such a clusterfuck at times so I think the gamr would benefit from a uniform rule.

That is my take on the issue, and why I get annoyed at people who play lands out front.

[Splicer]

Funny you should mention Yugioh, I was a Yugioh player before I was a magic player, so my idea of the layout works like that because it's simple to understand. I've been playing like that ever since I started the game, it just makes sense to me. I can't speak on the issue at hand, because I've never encountered it, but an easy to understand layout and a uniform display makes the game simpler and easy to enjoy in my opinion.