Thoughtsieze or Surgical Extraction

[Destore117]

{Thoughtsieze} or {Surgical Extraction}
Curious which one is well, "better"? I guess? they both have very useful effects, but one is reliant on graveyard, and the other only disrupts 1 card from their hand. (Although this, in both cases, can be the difference for some games.) I like both effects but am just unsure which one I'd want to invest in.

What do you all think here?

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

{Thoughtseize} is better. You get information of the hand and can take any nonland card. {Surgical Extraction} is cool, but it doesn't always work.

[Destore117]

My only. ONLY issue with Thoughtsieze is that price tag XD.
Other than that I love it as a card.

[Dudecore]

{Thoughtseize}. You get rid of something you cannot deal with. {Surgical Extraction} is worse then a counterspell, as in you'd rather draw a counterspell, and more akin to milling an opponent. Those kinds of extraction effects very rarely alter an opponents game plan and just result in you losing 2 life.

We see it every time one of those extraction cards are spoiled. Some people go crazy, think they're overpowered, get the hype train going at full speed and then don't play them. The truth is you'd rather have a counter or at least removal spell, because of the potential of just guessing wrong, not having to commit and the card having to be in the graveyard.

While Mill is a strategy, sure, it is suboptimal because you're increasing their life total to 53 and never interacting with the board or denying resources.

[Destore117]

{Thoughtseize}. You get rid of something you cannot deal with. {Surgical Extraction} is worse then a counterspell, as in you'd rather draw a counterspell, and more akin to milling an opponent. Those kinds of extraction effects very rarely alter an opponents game plan and just result in you losing 2 life.

We see it every time one of those extraction cards are spoiled. Some people go crazy, think they're overpowered, get the hype train going at full speed and then don't play them. The truth is you'd rather have a counter or at least removal spell, because of the potential of just guessing wrong and the card having to be in the graveyard.

While Mill is a strategy, sure, it is suboptimal because you're increasing their life total to 53 and never interacting with the board or denying resources.

So, if you were to use it, it'd mainly be a sideboard card of sorts? Like you'd have to know what's in there deck for it to work.

[cltrn81]

Surgical is great for destroying a combo deck.  However that combo piece needs to be in the GY first.  What's a good card for that? {thoughtseize}. Not to mention hand disruption is also great against combo decks.  I would say tseize is a great 4 of in a lot of decks and surgical is typically more of a SB card.  A SB card that does not see a lot of play because there are kind of better options.

Tseize wins hands down IMHO

[Dudecore]

I think you'd still want a counterspell. Bit a sideboard option could work. If you could somehow get {JeskaI Ascendancy} or {Glittering Wish} into their yard {Surgical Extraction} breaks that get up pretty well. But the truth remains, you'll almost always wish you drew a counter or a removal spell everytime {Surgical Extraction} is outside of your opening hand. Hell, you'd rather have {Thoughtseize}

[Anoobass]

{Thoughtseize} is better. You get information of the hand and can take any nonland card. {Surgical Extraction} is cool, but it doesn't always work.

To be fair most t1s are fetch lands, and then you could just extract that to see their hand.  Yes you couldn't take anything from it, but seeing what they kept and seeing their game plan is nice as well as taking out some of their mana base.

[Destore117]

I think you'd still want a counterspell. Bit a sideboard option could work. If you could somehow get {JeskaI Ascendancy} or {Glittering Wish} into their yard {Surgical Extraction} breaks that get up pretty well. But the truth remains, you'll almost always wish you drew a counter or a removal spell everytime {Surgical Extraction} is outside of your opening hand. Hell, you'd rather have {Thoughtseize}

1 you seem a bit saucy about this card.
2 you'd probably never need it in those matchups cuz they don't have too much GY manipulation. (Jeskai anyways.)
So I can see it's only really for particular matchups. In particular decks

[cltrn81]

{Thoughtseize} is better. You get information of the hand and can take any nonland card. {Surgical Extraction} is cool, but it doesn't always work.

To be fair most t1s are fetch lands, and then you could just extract that to see their hand.  Yes you couldn't take anything from it, but seeing what they kept and seeing their game plan is nice as well as taking out some of their mana base.

Not sure if you are saying you can remove a land with thoughtseize.  Alas you cannot....states non-land card

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

{Thoughtseize} is better. You get information of the hand and can take any nonland card. {Surgical Extraction} is cool, but it doesn't always work.

To be fair most t1s are fetch lands, and then you could just extract that to see their hand.  Yes you couldn't take anything from it, but seeing what they kept and seeing their game plan is nice as well as taking out some of their mana base.

Yes, but nine times out of ten you'd rather take something of your choice from their hand than get a little bit of information and have the chance of taking out a land. Honestly, both {Thoughtseize} and {Gitaxian Probe} are better at fulfilling the role.

[Millionlittlee]

{Thoughtseize} is better. You get information of the hand and can take any nonland card. {Surgical Extraction} is cool, but it doesn't always work.

To be fair most t1s are fetch lands, and then you could just extract that to see their hand.  Yes you couldn't take anything from it, but seeing what they kept and seeing their game plan is nice as well as taking out some of their mana base.

Not sure if you are saying you can remove a land with thoughtseize.  Alas you cannot....states non-land card

Surgical extraction hits non basic lands so they fetch and you get to target their fetch

[Mattao19]

Why not both? Nothing better than T1 swamp into T Seize into Surgical

[Destore117]

Nothing better than losing 4 life T1 ;~;

[Dudecore]

I don't think I'm being too saucy about it...its just cards like {Surgical Extraction} don't do anything for me. I've played the game a long time and have seen cards like it come and go. {Surgical Extraction} is free, yes, puts it above other similar effects as the best member of "extraction" effects. I would just rather draw something that helped me stabilize better, even a {Pithing Needle}.

I don't think it is useless, could be good in a sideboard,  I'm sure that is where it is found most of the time to beat combo decks. If I were in Black, I'd sideboard in {Inquisition of Kozilek} and {Duress}.