Well

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

The point is the gov shouldn't force us to pay for a service if we don't want it.

But you still do. Random person doesn't have insurance. He cuts himself. No big deal.  Two weeks later it's infected and really messing with him. The infection gets worse he goes to the emergency room. It looks like it could be life threatening so they have to take him.  The emergency room fixes him up and sends him a bill. He ignores it knowing there is not much that can be done to him. You can really get anything from someone who has nothing. So now they waste more time and money with collections and the such.

So now something that could have been fixed with an inexpensive doctor visit now is in collections and way more expensive since it was an emergency room visit. 

Now the hospital has to take into account of a certain % of people not paying their bill. So they charge more for each other persons visit to the hospital to your insurance. Then your insurance decides to pass that cost on to you and they even add a little more for their profits.

So how do you fix this. Well we can't make walmart or mcdonalds give their employees insurance since that will cut into their profits. So they decided to put that on the individual.

So basically you still pay for people who do not have insurance or the hospital will close.

So you fix that problem by not making hospitals take people like that. Tuh duh.

Hospitals have to take people with life threatening problems. And guess what if they didn't things like the movie john q would happen.

Using my solution, the people who really need it and desere it would have insurance already and thus they would get accepted.

Who decides if they "deserve it." You don't have the right to make life and death decisions for people whom you don't know. Also, if you have visited reality lately, you would know that there is a high unemployment rate. Moxy and hard work can't make you a millionaire in America anymore. Who says that the a$$hole born to a pampered life deserves to life more than the hard working man who got laid off and can't find a job? You obviously have no grasp on reality.

[jonrox3]

There is only one problem I have on this topic. I have seen it a ton. "Why do I get stuck with the bill?" Just think, a country of 300 million people not all, but most can pay taxes and this bill of one man/woman say is $150000 split that up into, I don't know, maybe 50 million people. Within these 50 million people you have lower class to upper class all paying a certain percent. In my utopia I would have the people who make more money pay a higher percent. But since there is a total of 50 million people paying for this bill it only turns out everyone is paying less than a penny for this man/woman. And then I guess I would have to factor in thousands of people getting medical care; some that are able to pay and some that aren't. But when I think anout this the money seems almost insignificant to the life a surgeon/doctor/nurse/whoever just saved. MY OPINION is that the Affordable Care Act will be a good thing, but I guess people think it is to socialistic for America to help others.

[Rass]

The point is the gov shouldn't force us to pay for a service if we don't want it.

But you still do. Random person doesn't have insurance. He cuts himself. No big deal.  Two weeks later it's infected and really messing with him. The infection gets worse he goes to the emergency room. It looks like it could be life threatening so they have to take him.  The emergency room fixes him up and sends him a bill. He ignores it knowing there is not much that can be done to him. You can really get anything from someone who has nothing. So now they waste more time and money with collections and the such.

So now something that could have been fixed with an inexpensive doctor visit now is in collections and way more expensive since it was an emergency room visit. 

Now the hospital has to take into account of a certain % of people not paying their bill. So they charge more for each other persons visit to the hospital to your insurance. Then your insurance decides to pass that cost on to you and they even add a little more for their profits.

So how do you fix this. Well we can't make walmart or mcdonalds give their employees insurance since that will cut into their profits. So they decided to put that on the individual.

So basically you still pay for people who do not have insurance or the hospital will close.

So you fix that problem by not making hospitals take people like that. Tuh duh.

Hospitals have to take people with life threatening problems. And guess what if they didn't things like the movie john q would happen.

Using my solution, the people who really need it and desere it would have insurance already and thus they would get accepted.

Who decides if they "deserve it." You don't have the right to make life and death decisions for people whom you don't know. Also, if you have visited reality lately, you would know that there is a high unemployment rate. Moxy and hard work can't make you a millionaire in America anymore. Who says that the a$$hole born to a pampered life deserves to life more than the hard working man who got laid off and can't find a job? You obviously have no grasp on reality.

People who deserve it are people who didn't purposefully harm their health, such as smokers.

Due to multiple government taxes and requirements for work benefits like health insurance, people can't hire as many people as they would like to.

Refer that hard working man to me.  I have a way for him to make some good money.  If they talk to enough people they will end up finding work.

Lol selling your Ponzi scheme I mean karat bars.

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

1. I would be will it to donate, because I could donate it to the group that does things the way I approve of.  The government forcibly takes it and gives it out in ways that I disagree with (see above argument about smoking)

2. How many people are in your family?

3. So should we just switch to a communistic society so everyone is equal and has the same things everyone else has?

1) Then we are getting into the territory of corruption. Millionaire and billionaires would run everything because their money is bigger and louder than everyone else's. Also, look at yourself. You claim you would donate, but you complain when you pay taxes. The money starts and ends in the same place, what's the difference? (and you can't use waste as a response, studies have shown that charities are worse than our government with similar waste, with as little as 1% making it to the cause with some major charities)

2) In my household are my two parents, me and my brother, and three foster children (we receive money to support them so its not like we are just digging ourselves in a deeper hole, we are basically just giving them a family, a roof and some attention).

3) In my honest opinion, yes. I believe that we should live in a social democracy where everyone is treated equally and receives the same opportunities. (and before you use the USSR or the Nazi regime as an example, those were facist governments, and a social democracy is a socialist system run by a democratic government) Although, I will refrain from speaking more on the subject, in respect for Piotr.

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

People who deserve it are people who didn't purposefully harm their health, such as smokers.

Due to multiple government taxes and requirements for work benefits like health insurance, people can't hire as many people as they would like to.

Refer that hard working man to me.  I have a way for him to make some good money.  If they talk to enough people they will end up finding work.

I have not been pampered and given all sorts of free stuff from my parents.  My parents make me work for all my stuff.  My dad makes $100000+ a year and he isn't going to pay very much at all for college.

Nor do I think that everyone can work into a million dollars.  They can work into a really decent living and maby more if they have a good idea.

I too agree tobacco should be illegal, but sadly many on your side of .politics. think that would be government overreach and a violation of their rights.

Many Americans work solely for the purpose of obtaining medical care through their employers, many experts believe that this law will allow those workers to step down into part time positions, freeing up jobs for people who need full time work (such as parents).

Sadly, this isn't true. Walmart has a lower acceptance rate than Harvard now adays....

Neither have I been pampered and I work hard to be a straight A student in advanced classes, while participating in sports, maintaining a job, participating in extracurricular activities, and participating in nationally acclaimed music groups. My parents will pay none of my college fees, I am alone, so don't talk to me about paying for college.

Your last line troubles me. The reason it troubles me, is because it is true. What happened to the American dream? This is just more evidence of the disgusting inequality that exists in America. The bourgeois have closed the door on the proletariat. How is that fair? Where does that fit into our human ideology?

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

Some charities waste.  I would not donate to those ones.  The difference is I get to chose how much I donate, to who it goes to, etc, as opposed from it forcibly being taken from me to be spent how to government thinks is the best.

Gtg, I'll be back in ~30 min.  Don't go on without me plz.

All charities waste. Whenever you see a commercial for a charity or organization, that is money that could have gone to the cause. (This is an example of monopolistic competition and is EXTREMELY unhealthy to the capitalist system.) Also, for the fifth? time, you don't have to live here. In addition, your "how the government thinks is the best" comment is idiotic. Who decides who runs the government? You do! If you don't like how they are running it, don't vote for them. Now, if you want to get into the, "but I don't choose, because of others, and my money should be spent the way I want it spent" argument, you are getting into the billionaires run the government territory, there is a reason we decide by popular election, not whomever throws the most money at it (although sadly, it is becoming that...).

I will wait

[Rass]

*lawers, not lasers. 

But I like lasers.

Lawyers found O.J. Innocent for murder but yet guilty in a civil trial. I don't trust them. But this is a whole other topic.

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

But this is a whole other topic.

Lol, guess what I want to be when I grow up....If you want to start the topic, I'll be glad to join in on the discussion.

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

4) and you can succeed by getting straight as like you have been and getting a full ride to a community college with a part time job to pay for text books.  Good for you.

This hits to the core of the problem though. I can get a community college education, get a job paying $30,000 (because pretty much any university is favored over CC) and the cycle continues. I barely get by and my children get a free ride into CC and so on. The only way to move up in the world is to put myself into crippling debt or to accept my place. That isn't right.

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

Some charities waste.  I would not donate to those ones.  The difference is I get to chose how much I donate, to who it goes to, etc, as opposed from it forcibly being taken from me to be spent how to government thinks is the best.

Gtg, I'll be back in ~30 min.  Don't go on without me plz.

All charities waste. Whenever you see a commercial for a charity or organization, that is money that could have gone to the cause. (This is an example of monopolistic competition and is EXTREMELY unhealthy to the capitalist system.) Also, for the fifth? time, you don't have to live here. In addition, your "how the government thinks is the best" comment is idiotic. Who decides who runs the government? You do! If you don't like how they are running it, don't vote for them. Now, if you want to get into the, "but I don't choose, because of others, and my money should be spent the way I want it spent" argument, you are getting into the billionaires run the government territory, there is a reason we decide by popular election, not whomever throws the most money at it (although sadly, it is becoming that...).

I will wait

That advertising gets more money for the program.  It's like a business.  I'd be fine with that "waste"
That takes us back to, the government is already outrageously out stepping its boundaries.
Most of how legislation is operated, is through the interpretation of unelected government officials, so even if I get my desired candidate into office, there are still ways for it to get screwed up.

1) That isn't how businesses are supposed to work, again, get educated on the economy and come back to me.
2)No it isn't. Allowing the citizens to get a say, without literally millions of dollars flooding the system and corrupting it.
3) Our elected officials vote on these laws, the people have a say.

To your, "And I don't mean to be offensive or sarcastic here.  It sounds like a) your dad over educated himself so they can't afford to pay him what he's worth in a sector that already pays little to nothing and b) your mom is getting hosed in her wage.  As a gm so she should be making more."
Why is over-educating himself by getting an associate's degree in business? You are just assuming he made a bad choice because I didn't even tell you what degree he got. My mom isn't a GM, she has a Master's degree in Childhood Education and can't find a job except for substituting, which pays next to nothing.

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

4) and you can succeed by getting straight as like you have been and getting a full ride to a community college with a part time job to pay for text books.  Good for you.

This hits to the core of the problem though. I can get a community college education, get a job paying $30,000 (because pretty much any university is favored over CC) and the cycle continues. I barely get by and my children get a free ride into CC and so on. The only way to move up in the world is to put myself into crippling debt or to accept my place. That isn't right.

Ummm... No.  My brother in law got a CS degree from Dixie state college.  He's now making ~$60,000 a year just 4 years into his career.

Again, not everyone is so fortunate. Your family being luck doesn't give you the right to look down on others.

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

I am done with this argument. There is no reason to argue with a man who doesn't see reality. You are just a condescending jerk, and I for one can't wait until you are out in the real world and your daddy isn't protecting you anymore. I implored you to use logic and have a basic sense of human decency, but apparently that isn't enough. Your misguided ideologies might grant you some kind of sense of superiority, but in reality you no better than anyone else. Maybe we can have this argument again when you have experienced life, understand economics and grow a conscience, but for now, I can't stand to hear anything else you say.

[FlickerYourOwnIdentity]

Well, hi guys.  Just a regular comment passing through.  Just came to ask how everyone's day was. 

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

Well, hi guys.  Just a regular comment passing through.  Just came to ask how everyone's day was. 

Fine, how was yours?

[FlickerYourOwnIdentity]

Pretty decent