Main Menu

Morph

Started by Avodroc13, May 15, 2014, 09:24:02 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Avodroc13

When a card is played facedown as a 2/2, and someone else plays {Clone}, can they look at the facedown card to see what the clone actually copies? I argue they can't because clone enters as a copy of a creature on the field. The morph card is a facedown 2/2 with no name, and stuff, so I say the clone would only be a 2/2 no name creature w/out abilities. They argue otherwise. Whose right?

particle

it copies the 2/2 creature and has no morph ability. the player can not look at the other side of the card since they are not copying it. you only copy whats on the face of the card, the face being a vanilla 2/2 with no abilities.

ibtrickey

#2
Agreed.:) it copies the 2/2 creature. That is all it is until turned face up. The actual creature is technically face down therefore is not an allowed target:) so shove it clone

Pleeb

I don't agree. I looked it up and know. See example 2 at the end of rule 706.2

706.2.: When copying an object, the copy acquires the copiable values of the original object's characteristics and, for an object on the stack, choices made when casting or activating it (mode, targets, the value of X, whether it was kicked, how it will affect multiple targets, and so on). The "copiable values" are the values derived from the text printed on the object (that text being name, mana cost, color indicator, card type, subtype, supertype, rules text, power, toughness, and/or loyalty), as modified by other copy effects, by "as . . . enters the battlefield" and "as . . . is turned face up" abilities that set characteristics, and by abilities that caused the object to be face down. Other effects (including type-changing and text-changing effects), status, and counters are not copied.
Example: Chimeric Staff is an artifact that reads "{X}: Chimeric Staff becomes an X/X artifact creature until end of turn." Clone is a creature that reads, "You may have Clone enter the battlefield as a copy of any creature on the battlefield." After a Staff has become a 5/5 artifact creature, a Clone enters the battlefield as a copy of it. The Clone is an artifact, not a 5/5 artifact creature. (The copy has the Staff's ability, however, and will become a creature if that ability is activated.)
Example: Clone enters the battlefield as a copy of a face-down Grinning Demon (a creature with morph {2}{B}{B}). The Clone is a colorless 2/2 creature with no name, no types, no abilities, and no mana cost. It will still be face up. Its controller can't pay {2}{B}{B} to turn it face up.

Remillo

Quote from: Pleeb on May 16, 2014, 03:47:54 PM
I don't agree. I looked it up and know. See example 2 at the end of rule 706.2

706.2.: When copying an object, the copy acquires the copiable values of the original object's characteristics and, for an object on the stack, choices made when casting or activating it (mode, targets, the value of X, whether it was kicked, how it will affect multiple targets, and so on). The "copiable values" are the values derived from the text printed on the object (that text being name, mana cost, color indicator, card type, subtype, supertype, rules text, power, toughness, and/or loyalty), as modified by other copy effects, by "as . . . enters the battlefield" and "as . . . is turned face up" abilities that set characteristics, and by abilities that caused the object to be face down. Other effects (including type-changing and text-changing effects), status, and counters are not copied.
Example: Chimeric Staff is an artifact that reads "{X}: Chimeric Staff becomes an X/X artifact creature until end of turn." Clone is a creature that reads, "You may have Clone enter the battlefield as a copy of any creature on the battlefield." After a Staff has become a 5/5 artifact creature, a Clone enters the battlefield as a copy of it. The Clone is an artifact, not a 5/5 artifact creature. (The copy has the Staff's ability, however, and will become a creature if that ability is activated.)
Example: Clone enters the battlefield as a copy of a face-down Grinning Demon (a creature with morph {2}{B}{B}). The Clone is a colorless 2/2 creature with no name, no types, no abilities, and no mana cost. It will still be face up. Its controller can't pay {2}{B}{B} to turn it face up.

This doesn't actually go against anything already said.  Both the answers above yours stated it would be a 2/2 with no name, color, abilities or mana cost.  Which is would be.  Neither of them said it would be 'face down', and one even stated it wouldn't have a morph ability.  Thanks for citing the relevant rule, though.