Does this make me a jerk?

[sithantic]

I have a habit that when I'm looking through a library, I count the cards. Now, here's the scenario. It's game 3. I've got 2 life, opponent has 13. I ult {Jace, Architect of Thought}. As I look through my opponents deck, I start counting(31). When I'm done looking through, I ask to see his graveyard, count those cards(14). He has 4 cards in hand, and 9 on battlefield. This means he presented and was playing a 58 card deck. I called a judge, and got the match win. Am I a jerk for doing this? The common consensus at the event was that I cheated him out of the win.

[TheRagingMage]

I don't find a problem with this.  He cheated, so he shouldn't be able to compete against people who don't.  Also, you saved other people who would have played against him in later rounds from playing a game against an illegal deck.  If nobody looked for people who cheat like that, they would get away with it every time.  On the other hand, counting the cards in each person's deck and making sure they don't have 5 of a card would quickly get annoying.  But once in a while, as you're searching through an opponent's deck, what bad will come from a quick search?

[particle]

as long as you arent close to time and you move quickly while counting i think its totally acceptable and a good practice.

[ibtrickey]

I find it acceptable since it is 2 cards off and not only 1. One card can be human error. But two is cheating.

Also not for rules section. Move to discussion? Mod.

[MuggyWuggy]

No it's perfect for this section.

Part of the rules of the game is a minimum 60 card deck for constructed formats. Normally a deck check resulting in an illegal deck construction is an auto game loss.

Always check your deck when you SB, sometimes you may end up throwing too many cards out.

And make sure all cards face the same way! You can get a warning at an REL event

[FustyDavorite]

Really, it should be done whether it was a mistake or not. That's how it rolls. Even if it was a mistake, that sucks, but he really should've counted them himself. He's not playing with a legal deck, so he shouldn't be playing. Simple as that

[MisterJH]

Theres nothing jerkish about following the rules and holding others to that minimal standard

[MisterJH]

I feel like if you were ulting a planeswalker that was goin to be your win anyways though haha

[Coffee Vampire]

You did the right thing. This isn't one of those gray areas. Playing a 58 card deck is just as illegal as playing a 7 card deck. If someone wishes to compete in tournaments, they must play by the rules of the tournament.

[MisterJH]

Think about it this way: if it was a super close game and he had won youd have been cheated because he literally increased his odds by a margin every draw. You were at a not insignificant disadvantage when playing a game of pure probability.

[MuggyWuggy]

Many time cheating in magic is all "unintentional"

But then you see certain characters commit these "unintentional" actions several times after

[Giggle the Draco Genius]

Although morally it can be a bit of a grey area the rules themselves are quite clear on what is supposed to happen if a player is playing an illegal deck.

It also depends at what rules enforcement level this was at.  If there was a large prize, such as a PTQ or GPT I would find this completely acceptable, as at that level they should have the knowledge to count their deck before presentation.

A good example of what seems like a bit too harsh of a punishment is if a player accidentally draws an extra card it is supposed to be a game loss, at FNM it is a bit overkill.

[MisterJH]

Id take my win... Mo' fuh me

[Pleeb]

The common consensus at the event was that I cheated him out of the win.

This is a case of blaming the victim. If someone cheats, intentional or not, they alone are responsible for what happens to them. In this case a match loss. Don't feel bad for catching them and calling them out on it.

[Mr_Fahrenheit]

My personal opinion is that if you really were just counting the cards because of the situation you described then it is perfectly ok. If you make a habit of counting your opponents deck every time you get down to two life in the hope of catching them out, while I still believe this is ok (as there is no excuse for playing with an illegal deck, you deserve the consequences regardless of whether or not it was intentional), I also believe that you are, in fact, a jerk. They aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.