Wussification of America

[rarehuntertay]

No i think emotional abuse is the biggest joke in the world. Its basically saying 'someones words are more powerful than your self esteem'

Its not an overreaction, its having my eyes open to whats happening. You can disagree but do NOT tell me what i think and feel, thats way overstepping your freedoms. Id go so far as to say its emotional abuse

Ok. Now think about this. Everyday of your life, for 13+ years, you are told that you are lazy, a piece of poo, and will never amount to anything. Now imagine that this is coming from a family member who is supposed to raising you. Eventually, your self-esteem, self-confidence will break down. That is all I heard from age 4 to age 18, when I finally was able to leave. I am now 33. I have undergone years of therapy, with little results, since those words are so firmly entrenched in my psyche now. I didn't find out until 7 years ago that I was clinically depressed, because to me, I was normal. So, back on point, whether you believe it or not, emotionally/psychological abuse is real, and regardless of your beliefs, your self-esteem/self-confidence can be broken.

It just took me about 15 minutes to type all this due to difficulty of opening up about such a sensitive issue.

[MisterJH]

No i think emotional abuse is the biggest joke in the world. Its basically saying 'someones words are more powerful than your self esteem'

Its not an overreaction, its having my eyes open to whats happening. You can disagree but do NOT tell me what i think and feel, thats way overstepping your freedoms. Id go so far as to say its emotional abuse

Ok. Now think about this. Everyday of your life, for 13+ years, you are told that you are lazy, a piece of poo, and will never amount to anything. Now imagine that this is coming from a family member who is supposed to raising you. Eventually, your self-esteem, self-confidence will break down. That is all I heard from age 4 to age 18, when I finally was able to leave. I am now 33. I have undergone years of therapy, with little results, since those words are so firmly entrenched in my psyche now. I didn't find out until 7 years ago that I was clinically depressed, because to me, I was normal. So, back on point, whether you believe it or not, emotionally/psychological abuse is real, and regardless of your beliefs, your self-esteem/self-confidence can be broken.

It just took me about 15 minutes to type all this due to difficulty of opening up about such a sensitive issue.

If you go through this post, i speciically touched on situations where the abuse comes from a guardian, someone who is supposed to nurture you that you cannot simply leave from. Thank you for openin up but im on your side on this one, thats a horrible case of neglect in raising your child and im truly sorry for anyone who must go through that. However i did mention such cases, and clarified that i was referring more to people who remain in verbally abusive relationships etc. i cant blame you for missing that cuz ive posted about 50 super long messages, but just know im not saying you deserved it or to suck it up. I know how traumatizing being raised in an environment that doesnt nurtjre you could possibly be, and im sorry man i hope youve been able to recover. .poo. must be rough as hell :/

[Piotr]

Indeed .love. this topic.  Were talkig about statistics now. 
I can take any set of data, warp the significance level, and voila!  I can get it to say the exact opposite of what it should be saying.  Take a statistics class.  It really opens your eyes.  Now, whenever I hear someone say a statistic, I ignore them and sometimes ask for the actual data.

I've taken two statistics classes. And yes you can mess with sample size, significance level, confidence level, and everything else to skew your results however you want but in the same way you can screw with every other source of relevant information and evidence. It just requires effort and a little to get correct information, just like with everything else

Not at all - in systems with multiple variables it is not possible to extract correct information, and definitely not using statistics. Certain type of statistics, such as for example the hockey stick related to global warming scams, is simply not acceptable in logical discussions and should not be tolerated.

[MisterJH]

Not that statistics has anything to do with much of anything here.

[Ieatfood7]

...psychological toeture is real. See extreme cases of stalking. See the book 1984 ( he was beaten severely but it was the psychological torture that broke him).  It is obvious that "just words" can do extreme harm to anyone if applied correctly.

Saying that such actions should not be legislated is to say that the psychologically strong should be able to hurt the psychologically weak with impunity. You go gather and say that such actions should not be socially unacceptable ( important note!most of the examples in this thread are not illegal...politically incorrect means it us legal but that you face social repercussions for it. In some societies in American being non Christian is socially unacceptable though not illegal. In some being a biblical literalist is socially unacceptable but not illegal. No word is illegal in America. Racism is not illegal (firing someone from their job due to racism is, but vrrbalizing your racism is not illegal). They are just unacceptable. The law only steps in when you cross the line to abuse/assault/threats, and hardly ever then. Google"intentional infliction of emotional distress" and see how very very very hard it is to win on that theory).

A person can have their life forever ruined by emotional and psychological damage, just as much as by physical damage. If a persons body is weak, a light punch could make their body be unable to go on living. If a person's mind/will is weak, a light mental assault could make their mind be unable to go on. (I am not saying you can't ever hurt feelings, just the te principals exist that psychological harm is real and dangerous.)

And you refer to abusive cases that also involve physical harm. If you go from beginning to finish, im mostly referring to the fact that political correctness is becomig close to illegal now, as making a finger gun may be politically incorrect in school, yet a child faced very real repercussions. Of course it evolved into wether someone should be allowed to call some a fat tub of lard, or a fag etc, and what i argue is that its up to the person being targeted to handle such things, as they happen and will always happen. Someone will always be ready to put you down. To be a healthy functioning individual id argue youd have to get bullied at some point, just to understand. And if youre healthy chances are youll brush it off like most, and though i may upset you thats the extent, and hopefully not too bad. My argument is not that constant harassment should be legal, although i do agree that for one to remain in a verbally abusive relationship for example, they are lacking the ability to handle themselves which is partially their fault, or the fault of their improper raising. For the most part its made out to seem as if im actively trying to have people hurt other when really im using those as examples to portray oversensitivity and the trend to shelter children from conflict rather than have them develop a healthy self esteem.

1-what you call wussifovation is actually the civilization of America. I agree, as I said before, that many thing are overeactions (like scolding or worse when a kid makes gun fingers) but this is just another step int  he process from the Stone Age to civilization. It was once thought that regular beatings, not spa kings or occasional punishments but straight physical abuse (caning in schools being the gentle version of it) was required for a child to grow up correctly. Prior to that it was held that whoever had the biggest army had the moral right to do whatever they wanted any any other idea was effeminate whining or outright blasphemy. Prior to that literally the strongest guy got to win and everyone else was expected to take it.

Slavery. Child labor laws. Women's equality. Serious workplace hazard laws (not silly safety things but like not having you work in an asbestos mine). Each was seen as wimpy at one point. I know you are saying that of course those are different as they cause physical harm, but at each step the people advocating for barbarism thought that the changes before them were good changes but the issue at hand didn't need any change.

No one (important) wants to make politically incorrect speech illegal or make politically incorrect thoughts illegal. However, your freedoms end when you intentionally and uneasisarily harm another person, whether it be harm physically, economically, psychologically, or in any other way. There is a legal test of reasonableness here...if I tap you on the shoulder and you have sunburn, that's not some thing I would have known or would be punished for. Its a balance of the intents. It's also, especially in speach which is a constitutional right, a balancing test. There is a very high coat to any legal abridgment to free speach, so the courts do not punish for it lightly. Again, Wikipedia "intentional infliction of emotional distress". If the language is bad enough in context (not just a bad word but serious harassment/threats/fraud/directly and purposefully inciting physical violence/etc) then a court may intervene. Please stop propagating myths about the government trying to take away the freedom of speach.

If you are complaining that society disapproves of racist remarks....,,.. You have a right to say whatever you want and I'll defend that right for you if called upon. But I have the right to not do business with someone or be friends with someone or vote for someone who says thing X or espouses opinion Y. As you can criticize my life choices/my mode of existence, I can criticize yours (ie your opinions and your mode of expressing them)

[MisterJH]

You make some good points, and i guess id fall in the category of someone resisting 'civilization.' But thats there the difference is largely at, as what you call furthered civilization i call coddling children excessively. And at this point in time i dont think its the worst thing ever, but i do see it heading down that road to everyone being forced to get along and not act in any ways that might potentially offend someone. Another example is the government trying to for christian businesses to provide birth control to workers as part of healthcare, more so in the sense of forcing everyone to get along rather than 'wussification.' Similar idea just in a different context. You did do a great job of defining our split in argument, and where exactly we must agree to disagree. I have a splitting headache so im goin to opt out of saying more at this time though, before my brain explodes

[Ieatfood7]

You make some good points, and i guess id fall in the category of someone resisting 'civilization.' But thats there the difference is largely at, as what you call furthered civilization i call coddling children excessively. And at this point in time i dont think its the worst thing ever, but i do see it heading down that road to everyone being forced to get along and not act in any ways that might potentially offend someone. Another example is the government trying to for christian businesses to provide birth control to workers as part of healthcare, more so in the sense of forcing everyone to get along rather than 'wussification.' Similar idea just in a different context. You did do a great job of defining our split in argument, and where exactly we must agree to disagree. I have a splitting headache so im goin to opt out of saying more at this time though, before my brain explodes

Lol. I know the feeling. And you are absolutely right that the current trend could lead down a bad path and go way too far. For an example of what I think you are worried about, go watch the dystopia comedy Demolition Man. Its hilarious and classic but shows a future where swearing is fined from listening devices in walls and one instance of graffiti is a high crime day for a city.

Mark rosewater said that for almost anyone or anything, your greatest flaw is your greatest strength taken too far. America has a lot of strengths. Take any of them too far and you have big problems (I could enumerate them, but really most dystopian novels show a strength (often security) taken too far). I don't but the "beware the slippery slope" argument simply because it applies to absolutely everything, so we need to always be aware of the risk but never give up on something ONLy because of the risk of where it could lead.

Now I would love to discuss the birth control thing, but PLeASe let's start a new thread if you want to discuss that. I already sent this off topic enough a while back.

[MisterJH]

Absolutely leat, im just pointing out i think were a quarter of the way down a slippery slope and nobodys helping us back up. Were just gonna slide. Of course thats just my view on things, i think that slope has been slipped down. Ive had enough serious talk for a little while, and im kind of losing my fighting spirit because icant move my head or neck at all without getting the most excruciating pain ever. Maybe tomorrow if i can freakin move

[MisterJH]

Well i dont like it regardless of what its name is.. As long as i lie still its completely fine but i kind of need to pee and eat.. Ugh

[MisterJH]

Im 18 and dont plan on getting married for at least another 15 years :/ so i guess ill eat a sandwich in 15 years