Wussification of America

[MisterJH]

No i think emotional abuse is the biggest joke in the world. Its basically saying 'someones words are more powerful than your self esteem'

Its not an overreaction, its having my eyes open to whats happening. You can disagree but do NOT tell me what i think and feel, thats way overstepping your freedoms. Id go so far as to say its emotional abuse

[MisterJH]

And for anyone whos confused on what im trying to say: YES i believe i can say the most vile horrible things imaginable to whoever i want, assuming i dont threaten their physical well being. That is my right to freedom of speech, even if i choose to abuse it. I am absolutely saying that.

[MisterJH]

America's society has become an advocate of intolerance and ignorance, and turned away from rationale and justice. That's the best way I could sum it up in one sentence.

Can it be proven using logic, rather than statistics or other lies?

I don't agree with what he said, but statistics are not lies.  If you want to prove something with pure logic and not statistics/facts, then you are limited to "a priori" ideas, and modern and classical philosophy has shown the limits of such ideas, if they even exist at all.

Also, something like what he said is always partially true and partially false. There are many people who are ignorant/intolerant and who tacitly celebrate that as a virtue...they would say they are promoting "traditional values". There are also many people who are tolerant and intelligent and are pushing the country as hard as they can into the 21st century (opponents would say they are wusses and elitists). Neither side is completely right and both sides exist. Both sides have ALWAYS existed in America to some degree (and I expect in other countries too, though that is just a guess).

This isnt about tolerance vs. intolerance either, this is about tolerance being forced upon us. This is about people actually getting in trouble for being intolerant, which they should be qble to do as they wish. Its about legal action or disciplinary action being taken to defend people who are 'insulted.' Because noone should have to stand up for themselves apparently.

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

This isnt about tolerance vs. intolerance either, this is about tolerance being forced upon us. This is about people actually getting in trouble for being intolerant, which they should be qble to do as they wish. Its about legal action or disciplinary action being taken to defend people who are 'insulted.' Because noone should have to stand up for themselves apparently.

So you are advocating bullying, harassment, racism and other atrocities of humanity? No one should be allowed to be intolerant of others, we should all just respect each other.

[MisterJH]

Im not advocating someone do it, hey ive said multiple times i agree its WRONG, so read thoroughly before making claims on MY claims. However it is not somethig that should be legally enforced, unless it gets to the point of stalking harassment. So Taysby youre not understanding me either. This is about quote unquote wussification of America, in that people consider it the governments business to ensure noones feelings are hurt. To be even more clear than i have before: YES I THINK HARASSMENT IS A RIGHT, although horribly morally wrong. Society and the norms assure plenty well enough that harassment is not commonplace, and when it occurs i think its up to the person to have a higher sense of self worth than to let name calling(for example) dictate their mood or behavior. What this is ABOUT is people being unable to cope, and government/authority actually punishing intolerance, as if words were as powerful as a punch. And if you argue they are, then it seems im rather directy referring to you.

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

There's a difference between harassment and saying that being gay isn't good because god said it was bad.
Harassment would be
You're gay?  Why?  It's an atrocity, you're a horrible person for being gay, you should go kill yourself.
Other option
Being gay isn't good.  God said so, but I still respect you as a person.

Harassment is excessive, intentionally hurtful things.

First of all, you can't prove that your God exists and you have no right to push your ideology on others. You have the right to believe that being homosexual is immoral, but gays have the right to be gay and they should not be persecuted for it.

[Kaworu, the Fifth Child]

There's a difference between harassment and saying that being gay isn't good because god said it was bad.
Harassment would be
You're gay?  Why?  It's an atrocity, you're a horrible person for being gay, you should go kill yourself.
Other option
Being gay isn't good.  God said so, but I still respect you as a person.

Harassment is excessive, intentionally hurtful things.

Where is it said that gaynsss is wrong? I do believe it also says not to judge someone for the choices they make.

[MisterJH]

There's a difference between harassment and saying that being gay isn't good because god said it was bad.
Harassment would be
You're gay?  Why?  It's an atrocity, you're a horrible person for being gay, you should go kill yourself.
Other option
Being gay isn't good.  God said so, but I still respect you as a person.

Harassment is excessive, intentionally hurtful things.

Where is it said that gaynsss is wrong? I do believe it also says not to judge someone for the choices they make.

It was said a man is made for a woman, and implied very strongly. Sodom was a horribly sinful place(biblically) that was sent up in a blazing pillar. I think its clear that the bible did not support homosexuality, although it never explicitly said 'homosexuals are terrible and will go to hell.' so if youd like to cling onto the lack of direct forbidance be my guest, im indifferent. However this is besides the point again. I encourage you to make a separate post about this if you desire to discuss further, i will gladly contribute without getting too angry or being a bigot. I encourage debate even if im firmly set in my ways

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

There's a difference between harassment and saying that being gay isn't good because god said it was bad.
Harassment would be
You're gay?  Why?  It's an atrocity, you're a horrible person for being gay, you should go kill yourself.
Other option
Being gay isn't good.  God said so, but I still respect you as a person.

Harassment is excessive, intentionally hurtful things.

Where is it said that gaynsss is wrong? I do believe it also says not to judge someone for the choices they make.

^This is why I left Christianity, way too much hippocracy.

Ephesians 4:32 ESV

"Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you."

I'd also like to point out that all mentions of anti-homosexuality are in the old testament, which is completely counteracted in the new testament, where Jesus basically states 'if you believe in God, you will be forgiven.'

[Kaworu, the Fifth Child]

There's a difference between harassment and saying that being gay isn't good because god said it was bad.
Harassment would be
You're gay?  Why?  It's an atrocity, you're a horrible person for being gay, you should go kill yourself.
Other option
Being gay isn't good.  God said so, but I still respect you as a person.

Harassment is excessive, intentionally hurtful things.

Where is it said that gaynsss is wrong? I do believe it also says not to judge someone for the choices they make.

It was said a man is made for a woman, and implied very strongly. Sodom was a horribly sinful place(biblically) that was sent up in a blazing pillar. I think its clear that the bible did not support homosexuality, although it never explicitly said 'homosexuals are terrible and will go to hell.' so if youd like to cling onto the lack of direct forbidance be my guest, im indifferent. However this is besides the point again. I encourage you to make a separate post about this if you desire to discuss further, i will gladly contribute without getting too angry or being a bigot. I encourage debate even if im firmly set in my ways

Fair point, unhikacked!

[MisterJH]

There's a difference between harassment and saying that being gay isn't good because god said it was bad.
Harassment would be
You're gay?  Why?  It's an atrocity, you're a horrible person for being gay, you should go kill yourself.
Other option
Being gay isn't good.  God said so, but I still respect you as a person.

Harassment is excessive, intentionally hurtful things.

Where is it said that gaynsss is wrong? I do believe it also says not to judge someone for the choices they make.

^This is why I left Christianity, way too much hippocracy.

Ephesians 4:32 ESV

"Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you."

Although many in the church are hypocritical in this way, the correct stance of the church(skewed by many) is that homosexuals should not be married, in the christian sense of the word, as it bastardizes the bibles definition of union between a man and a woman. And the church should not sanction homosexuals, because they directly violate above mentioned 'union between man and woman.' That being said, a vast majority of church goers commit mortal sin regularly, so its a terrible argument unless you are a die hard Christian. In which case you disagree with homosexuality, and do not accept them into the church, but also follow the bibles teachings and do not judge.

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

Im not advocating someone do it, hey ive said multiple times i agree its WRONG, so read thoroughly before making claims on MY claims. However it is not somethig that should be legally enforced, unless it gets to the point of stalking harassment. So Taysby youre not understanding me either. This is about quote unquote wussification of America, in that people consider it the governments business to ensure noones feelings are hurt. To be even more clear than i have before: YES I THINK HARASSMENT IS A RIGHT, although horribly morally wrong. Society and the norms assure plenty well enough that harassment is not commonplace, and when it occurs i think its up to the person to have a higher sense of self worth than to let name calling(for example) dictate their mood or behavior. What this is ABOUT is people being unable to cope, and government/authority actually punishing intolerance, as if words were as powerful as a punch. And if you argue they are, then it seems im rather directy referring to you.

Harassment makes people feel really bad.  Punching someone in the face makes someone feel really bad.  They both should be illegal to do.  There's a fine line between harassment and standing up for what you believe in.

Yes, but if your beliefs are offensive to others, you should be considerate of their feelings

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

The same could be said in the opposite directions.  Their views are "offensive" to me.  Why should I have to be quiet just because I'm on the other side of the debate.

Like If I say "being fat is unhealthy it makes you sick more, makes you more suceptible to heart disease, etc"  and they find it offensive because they're fat, I should still be able to tell them that and not have to keep quiet.  I'm not harassing them and saying "your fat, you're ugly, no one likes you". I'm just saying my views in a way that shouldn't hurt their feelings.

Because they have should to right to live how they want to, but you shouldn't have the right to criticize them. Say what you want behind their back, crack jokes with your friends, but saying hurtful things to their face isn't constructive in any way.

[MisterJH]

Ok youre missing the point. First of all, getting punched in the face is DANGEROUS, and infringes another persons right to safety. Thats vastly different than making someone 'feel bad.'

Harrassment in the sense of if its only when you happen to see this person, guess what? Grow some kahonas and get over it. However if they go out of their way to harassc wellthats also stalking behavior, i think that should be strictly illegal. Look none of these arguments are quite touching on my point, although i can tell that you are more on the side of 'everyone should have to tolerate,' what im saying is being skewed and misinterpreted, and also you are assuming it seems that im talking about following someone around to harass the shizza out of them.

[FustyDavorite]

I can't remember exactly where, but somewhere it says "a man who lies with another man must be stoned". Voila, the bible teaches being gay is bad.
Now I'm not saying you should be mean to them, you should let them be gay if they want, but you should be able to say "yeah, my values say that being gay is wrong" and not have people get upset with you.  It's all in respecting other people as people, yet still being able to say your values, and what you believe in.

from a Christian perspective, I would like everyone to note that he isn't actually saying that every man must be stoned that sleeps with another man. The passage actually goes like this, "It would be better for a man to be stoned that to sleep with another man," and should be seen in the same light as, "If your hand causes you to sin, it would be better to cut it off than to let it cause you to sin again." He isn't actually asking you to cut off your hand, he is conveying the severity of sinning. And Agrus, while I understand your issues of intolerant "Christians" (believe me, I know them), I don't consider them Christians. Christians are followers of Jesus Christ, and not hypocrites. And you are right, Christians are in no place to judge. We are stuck in the same sinful nature as everyone else. But sin is still sin, and homosexuality is a sin, so from our view homosexuality is wrong. But we sin just as much as a homosexual, and we are no better than them.