Whip+Obzedat

[Pirate John]

{Whip of Erebus} + {obzedat, ghost council} + obzedat's exile ability = what?

Isn't obzedat permently exiled in response to activating his ability? Doesn't whip's effect take precedence? (Assuming he was reanimated using whip)

Hard ruling please. Same guy keeps posting on the Standard forum that it works so I just want to 2x check that it doesn't.

[MementoMori]

It was mentioned in the article on DailyMTG spoiling the card: http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/rc/264

It works because the Whip states that the reanimated creature is to be exiled instead of going anywhere else. "Else" is the operative word -- because Obzedat is going into exile on his own, the Whip's replacement effect doesn't apply.

By the way, you're using a couple of terms incorrectly. First: the Whip doesn't "respond" to anything; the effect that exiles the creature instead of sending it somewhere else is a replacement effect and doesn't use the stack. Second: Obzedat's ability is triggered, not activated.

[Pirate John]

Didn't mean obzedat's ability was an activated ability. I was referring to the controller's ability to chose whether or not he wants to exile

Didn't say whip was responding to anything, but yea I meant replacement.

Just read that article. It feels so wrong. It just seemed like they worded Whip to avoid things like that. Going to look for similar Modern examples >.>

[Kagain123]

From FAQ for Theros:


If a creature returned to the battlefield with Whip of Erebos would leave the battlefield for any reason, it's exiled instead. However, if that creature is already being exiled, then the replacement effect won't apply. If the spell or ability that exiles it later returns it to the battlefield (as Chained to the Rocks might, for example), the creature card will return to the battlefield as a new object with no relation to its previous existence. The effects from Whip of Erebos will no longer apply to it.

[Sardok]

Didn't mean obzedat's ability was an activated ability. I was referring to the controller's ability to chose whether or not he wants to exile

If you use the {Whip of Erebos} to return Obzedat to play, the whip will trigger and exile it at the beginning of the end step.
Obzedat's trigger happens. It looks for two conditions.
Is it the beginning of the end step? Check.
Is obzedat exiled? Check.
Since these two conditions are met, the trigger returns Obzedat to the battlefield.
And that's it.

[Pirate John]

It really is the addition of the word "else" >.>

Seems like someone creating the cards knew what he was angling for before he made them.

[Keyeto]

It really is the addition of the word "else" >.>

Seems like someone creating the cards knew what he was angling for before he made them.

Actually, it would still work even without the word "else" in the text. It's the same reason you could Unearth {Obzedat, Ghost Council} with, say, {Sedris the Traitor King} (note Unearth doesn't have the wording "else") and use Obzedat's ability perfectly fine.

It creates two effects that are trying to do the same thing, and as the controller of the permanents, you get to choose which one to apply. Simple as that!

[Pirate John]

It really is the addition of the word "else" >.>

Seems like someone creating the cards knew what he was angling for before he made them.

It creates two effects that are trying to do the same thing, and as the controller of the permanents, you get to choose which one to apply. Simple as that!

Interesting. What rule # is that?

[Kaleo42]

This is one of the few things in theros that annoy me from a design perspective. That and bestow's "im a creature spell now since you killed my aura target before i resolved" is just bad design. They clearly leaned away from the rules of magic just to make the players happy. There is nothing in the rules text that actually justifies either of these actions. They couldve made bestow much weaker and much cheaper and it woulve seen lots of play. They couldve applied the whips replacement effect similar to unearth and the card would still be good. Lazy design wizards.

[Keyeto]

It really is the addition of the word "else" >.>

Seems like someone creating the cards knew what he was angling for before he made them.

It creates two effects that are trying to do the same thing, and as the controller of the permanents, you get to choose which one to apply. Simple as that!

Interesting. What rule # is that?

Perhaps that was poor wording on my part. It's moreso you get to choose which one goes into effect by stacking the triggers correctly. Whichever one resolves first, is the one that will be applied. The second one will fizzle.

Edit: And I have to agree with you, Kaleo. I'm not liking some of these new "My creature is an enchantment, but kinda a creature at the same time, just maybe not right now" kind of things they're pulling. It's confusing to new players, and it's going to be a bit of a hassle answering related questions. I don't like backing up an answer to a rules question with "Well, that's just how Theros works; you gotta believe me." They're borderline breaking some rules here.