Is non truth a lie?

[Piotr]

Personally i'd rather not bite the hand that feeds, because at the end of the day do you feel bigger because you stood up to piotr for banning someone. Probrably getting banned in the process. Was it worth it? Who really cares 10 years from now. How bout go do something with yourself that adds to peoples lives. I am very benefitted by this app therefore it has added value to my life. Like most people with facebook.

This is wrong for soooo many reasons.

Agreed

[DirtyMustachio]

Care to elaborate, or else I'll presume you misinterpret my sentiment.

I by no means try to give undue merit to a social waste of time (facebook). The example I used it for is that millions of people use it, and arguably it benefits its userbase in some fashion.

The issue here is nitpicking the definition of a lie. Whether its socialism or capitalism, agressively persuading people on misinformation believed inherently or not, is wrong. This is not our server or forum.  If told to stop we should respect that. I'm under the impression the population is that of adults and children alike. Children may not be competent enough to make a decision regaurding these topics,  adults aughta be able to discern bringing up topics like this especially with children around.

You personally believing something to be true really doesn't hold much merit. Unless its a generally accepted believed sentiment.

[Double-O-Scotch]

So the validity of what I believe is entirely dependant on whether or not others believe the same?! I think not, good sir...

[DirtyMustachio]

So the validity of what I believe is entirely dependant on whether or not others believe the same?! I think not, good sir...

Well this could go way off on an unecessary tangent. But yes. One persons beliefs (while not not any less significant in their own right) do not trump general fact and understanding.

You can choose written fact as truth or you can not. Those are your choices.

I believe the sky is blue because I decided to believe the general fact that most people have accepted as the science that proves this.

Misleading people to believe what you believe on a topic as obscure as socialism (not the meaning but subscribing to the policies and philosophy) is opinion and cannot be perceived as truth. It may not be a full on lie, but I'm sorry I refuse to believe you all want to stand for illigitimate persuasion to any bias of any kind (ie: i'm not trying to single out socialism but its the most cited source for this conversation so far.)

[Boringanarchy2]

Care to elaborate, or else I'll presume you misinterpret my sentiment.

I by no means try to give undue merit to a social waste of time (facebook). The example I used it for is that millions of people use it, and arguably it benefits its userbase in some fashion.

The issue here is nitpicking the definition of a lie. Whether its socialism or capitalism, agressively persuading people on misinformation believed inherently or not, is wrong. This is not our server or forum.  If told to stop we should respect that. I'm under the impression the population is that of adults and children alike. Children may not be competent enough to make a decision regaurding these topics,  adults aughta be able to discern bringing up topics like this especially with children around.

You personally believing something to be true really doesn't hold much merit. Unless its a generally accepted believed sentiment.

Whether or not I am misinformed is a topic up for debate. However, my biggest beef is that you set up a discussion forum and then outlaw an entire section of the political spectrum. Either be upfront in stating that political opinions must conform to your worldview or dot put up a discussion section.

[DirtyMustachio]

I will append my statement to allow you my personal insight. I don't necessarily agree with my own argument (especially the following of bandwagon mentality) but I feel it is a necessary argument for this discussion.

[DirtyMustachio]

Care to elaborate, or else I'll presume you misinterpret my sentiment.

I by no means try to give undue merit to a social waste of time (facebook). The example I used it for is that millions of people use it, and arguably it benefits its userbase in some fashion.

The issue here is nitpicking the definition of a lie. Whether its socialism or capitalism, agressively persuading people on misinformation believed inherently or not, is wrong. This is not our server or forum.  If told to stop we should respect that. I'm under the impression the population is that of adults and children alike. Children may not be competent enough to make a decision regaurding these topics,  adults aughta be able to discern bringing up topics like this especially with children around.

You personally believing something to be true really doesn't hold much merit. Unless its a generally accepted believed sentiment.

Whether or not I am misinformed is a topic up for debate. However, my biggest beef is that you set up a discussion forum and then outlaw an entire section of the political spectrum. Either be upfront in stating that political opinions must conform to your worldview or dot put up a discussion section.

I don't claim to know where the entirity of this discussion began,  and I'm all for people debating beliefs and .politics.. But stating non truths as facts or opinions as facts to persuade an argument is wrong

TL; DR: Cite some source material that people can discuss that is from a credible source that people can debate about.  And if you state what you believe is a fact don't be butthurt when people say you can't claim an opinion is truth.

[Mikefrompluto]

Care to elaborate, or else I'll presume you misinterpret my sentiment.

The issue here is nitpicking the definition of a lie.

I interpreted it as you should just lie down and take it when you see something that you believe is wrong going on. Is that not what you meant with the "biting the hand that feeds" comment? If it is, that is complete bull💩 as far as I'm concerned. If I see something going on that I believe is wrong and it elicits an emotion from me, you bet your ass I'm going to say something about it, no matter how trivial it is or how much use I get out of the person's product.

[DirtyMustachio]

You can disagree with facts allllll you want and I'm cool with your right to do that. But your opinion will NEVER be a accepted fact unless it is already an accepted and adopted source circulating.

Or go spend 10 years to research pigments, light refraction, or whatever. Write your thesis's get it approved by whatever commitee presides over that topic. Print and sell your books, change the school texts. (Apply this to whatever fact you choose to "proove") and then you'll have the right to pander whatever you want

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

No. People use "lie" as a substitute for "deception", "incorrect" and apparently "opinion". A lie is "a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth".

^^^ Again. My personal definition would probably be "a blatant and intentional misrepresentation or misstatement of the truth".

[DirtyMustachio]

Care to elaborate, or else I'll presume you misinterpret my sentiment.

The issue here is nitpicking the definition of a lie.

I interpreted it as you should just lie down and take it when you see something that you believe is wrong going on. Is that not what you meant with the "biting the hand that feeds" comment? If it is, that is complete bull💩 as far as I'm concerned. If I see something going on that I believe is wrong and it elicits an emotion from me, you bet your ass I'm going to say something about it, no matter how trivial it is or how much use I get out of the person's product.

If its unecessarily aggravating the community to be at odds. Yeah. Which I generally feel has happened. Don't get me wrong, standing up for social injustices is all well and good and should be done. But I personally think this is way out of hand. Perhaps I may have decided on taking the devils advocate approch to start but its given me a place to jump into the debate with very little prior knowledge to it. I don't really disagree with what the majority of whats being said in defense of free speech vs. Piotrs rights of ownership. However I really don't feel as if I could just let it go either, especially when the other side seemed unrepresented and slander was being somewhat accepted.

[Boringanarchy2]

Care to elaborate, or else I'll presume you misinterpret my sentiment.

I by no means try to give undue merit to a social waste of time (facebook). The example I used it for is that millions of people use it, and arguably it benefits its userbase in some fashion.

The issue here is nitpicking the definition of a lie. Whether its socialism or capitalism, agressively persuading people on misinformation believed inherently or not, is wrong. This is not our server or forum.  If told to stop we should respect that. I'm under the impression the population is that of adults and children alike. Children may not be competent enough to make a decision regaurding these topics,  adults aughta be able to discern bringing up topics like this especially with children around.

You personally believing something to be true really doesn't hold much merit. Unless its a generally accepted believed sentiment.

Whether or not I am misinformed is a topic up for debate. However, my biggest beef is that you set up a discussion forum and then outlaw an entire section of the political spectrum. Either be upfront in stating that political opinions must conform to your worldview or dot put up a discussion section.

I don't claim to know where the entirity of this discussion began,  and I'm all for people debating beliefs and .politics.. But stating non truths as facts or opinions as facts to persuade an argument is wrong

TL; DR: Cite some source material that people can discuss that is from a credible source that people can debate about.  And if you state what you believe is a fact don't be butthurt when people say you can't claim an opinion is truth.

I quoted sources, Priotr did not. Priotr made blanket statements about socialism being inherently deceitful, I said capitalism has problems and expounded with statistics about unemployment. I also cited Inside Job as a source for the statement that got me banned. Priotr just needs to be upfront: he does not believe in socialism and has outlawed promoting it. Again, I don't mind if people feel that socialism is wrong, but I feel Priotr should state outright he doesn't agree with it and considers it bannable to have an opinion he strongly disagrees with.

[DirtyMustachio]

Then the only thing I have left to question is the validity and moreso the bias of your citations(don't bite my head off I'm attempting to be objective)

And your "choice" to "agressively" continue to pursue something so obscure.

Things like capitalism and socialism are obviously rave topics. They are in themselves ideals and yet can only be proven within themselves so whose to really say one is right or wrong. Hence the voting process.

If you choose to agressively pursue one or either as pure truth, isnt that in a sense a misleading of sorts.

Which is different opposed to. "Oh hai guys, I like socialism because of this "" you should check it out of YOUR OWN VOLITION.'

^now I don't see piotr having an issue with this one. Maybe he still does, and he can tell me. And I'll shut up and let the debate continue. I just kinda felt this was more the case.

Also I'd like to thank you for bringing me up to speed and apologize for being ignorant of the full debate.

[Boringanarchy2]

Then the only thing I have left to question is the validity and moreso the bias of your citations(don't bite my head off I'm attempting to be objective)

And your "choice" to "agressively" continue to pursue something so obscure.

Things like capitalism and socialism are obviously rave topics. They are in themselves ideals and yet can only be proven within themselves so whose to really say one is right or wrong. Hence the voting process.

If you choose to agressively pursue one or either as pure truth, isnt that in a sense a misleading of sorts.

Which is different opposed to. "Oh hai guys, I like socialism because of this "" you should check it out of YOUR OWN VOLITION.'

^now I don't see piotr having an issue with this one. Maybe he still does, and he can tell me. And I'll shut up and let the debate continue. I just kinda felt this was more the case.

Also I'd like to thank you for bringing me up to speed and apologize for being ignorant of the full debate.

Socialism was stated as an absolute untruth and anyone who prompted it a liar or naive.

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

Alright guys. I disagree with Boringanarchy12 being banned but I also realize that there is a time to move on. Keep fighting for what you believe in but also try to keep the order in this community. "A house divided against itself cannot stand."