Why Magic Why?

[Double-O-Scotch]

I agree with you DG. A couple of my friends have quit now cause they say the game is too overpriced and too dumbed down. Mind you, we started playing during the ice age...back in the day when you could still pull ante cards out of boosters, when banding made even less sense, most counterspells being used were actually called {counterspell} and the {black lotus} was a measly $180 dollars.  These days the cards practically play themselves. Aurelia and Gisela are not a great idea for a combo, they were designed to be used together. Recently, combos don't require any ingenuity or imagination. Just resources to acquire the right playsets. It's basically why I only play EDH now. I like a deck that moulds itself to the player. I mean, how is it fun to sit there and ask someone what they're playing, and they tell you a deck name, like red deck wins, or eggs and you already know every single card that will be in the deck.  EDH doesn't use playsets and the singleton format means that every deck is a little more personalized and different. I will likely never play standard or modern again and vintage and legacy are boring and overpriced.

[Kaleo42]

Well that sounds like a different problem entirely. The information age has allowed magic players to hivemind the best decks by putting in a 100 hours of play testing in a frw days where as an individual used to takes weeks or even months to make all the necessary mistakes to tune a list. This does draw away from the heart of magic and what makes it great but it is an evolution of the game that we must adapt to. I find the bright side in how good players have gotten at the game thanks to this hivemind information sharing. The adverage magic player of today knows more about the game than most of the best magic players 10-15 years ago. Our capacity to learn as a whole is so much high based on how available info is. My issue in this though is that no one seems to take the time to understand why a list looks like it does. Simply putting a deck together because it is awesome does not make you awesome. It is possible though to play that list without changing a card and be awesome, that comes when you can why it looks how it does and why there is not a better way to build that. Even better is when you can explain why there is not a better deck you could be playing. Players these days spend too much time trying to find the right deck and not enough time figuring out what makes the right deck, what they can do to create the next big deck. It's up to those of us who cling to creativity and a thirst for knowledge to redefine what Esper control or mono red means, or create a new idea that cam play with the big dogs (heartless). I have been there I have both seen and prove this is possible. We have even come together to change our local community so that 70% of the decks I see at a 30-50 persob fnm are homebrews or netbrews (personalized net decks). If this gradual dumbing of magic players due to the internet bothers you then do something about it, learn what goes into top level decks and being a top level player and become atleast a rules advisor. We can make a difference but we have to prove to the community that being different does not mean you auto lose to net decks. Which reminds me dont get hung up on the top deck think about the entire top teir. Heartless was not good because it beat delver it was good because pod, gr aggro, and bw tokens all had a rough time with it.

This rant may lead to being a topic for one of those videos I am working on.

[Death Gaara]

Haha well played. You are exactly right about when I start but not about how. I was introduced to the game by long time players with old time rules, I have lived in both worlds and the flaws in design used to drive me crazy. That being said everything had a reason behind and I love that. The new clone rules are the first ones that I can think of that are strickly for eaaing game play without any concern for flavor, this does really bother me.

I like games like chess and Othello. Minutes to learn, life time to master. I personally like the slow shift in that direction.

On the point of cost...i do believe magic has grown way top expensive and something has to give. Some effort has been shown to put 4 ofs at rare like {scavenging ooze} while more niche powerhouses hold higher ratity. ...gotta work again

While I do acknowledge you points, you argument is still flimsy do to lack of experience with the source. You did not play the game when damage went on the stack or when there were no such things as planeswalkers. Trust me, you have not played old school magic unless you have issues with how banding works, tapped Tolerian Academy for a million mana, Demonic Tutored a basic land so you do not miss your land drop, or have been extremely stoked to rip a Lord of the Pit or Shivan Dragon out of a pack. I guess what I am saying I am glad you enjoy the game. However, I cannot expect you to understand where I am coming from because the game is entirely different from what it was before M10 and the like. Trust me, playing this game when planeswalkers didn't exist and damage went on the stack is entirely perspective changing on its own. I am not saying that those two changes were bad for the game. I am just saying you have never seen a Siege Gang Commander take out 2 of your creatures and knock you for 6-7 damage all with 4 mana open during the combat step. The depth that went into a combat step like that was intense. So many possible combinations of how blockers could be declared. It made combat math tough, but rewarded critical thought. By removing damage on the stack they simplified the game. And that was just the first step. The new rule does have some sense since how can a creature deal damage without actually being there. However, in the process of making sense, they started to eliminate the complexity. Since then more and more changes have led to a simpler game. Magic is by no means a bad game. It is just a game that appears to be complex but is now just as basic as most other card games. If it were not for the stack and how it works, magic would just be another game that took little play skill and eventually die out. The quality of magic players has gone down because of these changes. While that is not an issue, what is a problem is WotC's catering to this crowd instead of making them strap on their big boy boots and making them wisen up a bit. Newer players are fine, but at some point they need to learn that magic is more complex then the other card game they came from (if they played another game previously). WotC claims that they are trying to make it new player friendly, but in reality all that is happening is WotC is making the game a slightly more complex yugioh. Especially with the new legend rule. They want to create interactive gamestates with the players however, by making this change now players just play their cards without worrying about what may come. They just focus on their own game and totally disregard the opponent because if they play a Jace too it wont matter. If anything, it is the opposite of WotC's goal. Now people can play cards freely and not have to worry about legend rules. This alone eliminates the interactivity between players. Finding a solution to the opponent's permanent so you could play yours was incredibly interactive. You had to think outside of the box and not over commit to one game plan. Because of the new rules and direction of the game, Magic has become a durdle fest of who can play more creatures faster or who can lay down a planeswalker and gain all the advantage first. Magic now caters to the crowds who either have tons of money (planewalker game plans) or just play creatures and disregard the opponents creatures (durdle fest game plan). This has evolved past a "control and combo are dead" argument and has not become a who does WotC care about? A fresh generation of teenagers who grew up with yugioh are just now coming over to magic. Now they have to cater to those people and what they are used to because it makes them happy and they are the ones who have the cash. WotC should do this to an extent as a business, but also show some love to their older crowd which made them who they are today. FTV releases are not what I am talking about. How about some support for the older formats or throwing the old school players a bone in Modern? Maybe a release with some much needed reprints except not make it a limited print run? How about unbanning Golgari Grave Troll since dredge wont be a deck anyways as long as Dread Return is banned? Things like these could be done to show support to the people who made the game what it is today. If it was not for old school players, new players would not have their durdle fests today. By all means players should have the right to play that way if they want. However, it is not necessary to make every format within reason like this. If they want to take a little they should give a little too. Where is the balance the game used to have? That is the ideology I am looking for.

[Kaleo42]

Well put. Modern is so new that it's no surprise that Wizards is behind on giving it real support. I have faith they will come around now that the rules are well under control.

As for your examples of old school playing I did them all before I learned standard (except opening the mentioned cards).

Perhaps you did them, but did you do them for 7+ years like the rest of us? I am guessing maybe a year at most. Magic may improve, but WotC needs to start looking at everyone who is interested instead of just focusing solely on newer players. That is just my opinion though.

[whitedrake]

@ Death Gaara I sort of agree with almost everything you said here, but on the other hand, Magic the Gathering was always expensive hobby. I remember quite a lot. I have played Magic since 1993/94 and even back then if you wanted to be competitive you had to invest a lot of money. But the thing is that nowadays we have more high value cards then bfr... Wider and bigger market... Bigger demand for the certain cards... Simply free market...

But I have to agree with your point about the games tendencies... They sacrificed so much to make the game more friendly to new players. But I hope they will balance the game again... This happened in past few times already...

[Kaleo42]

Well put. Modern is so new that it's no surprise that Wizards is behind on giving it real support. I have faith they will come around now that the rules are well under control.

As for your examples of old school playing I did them all before I learned standard (except opening the mentioned cards).

Perhaps you did them, but did you do them for 7+ years like the rest of us? I am guessing maybe a year at most. Magic may improve, but WotC needs to start looking at everyone who is interested instead of just focusing solely on newer players. That is just my opinion though.

Haha nice mod mistake. The quote and modify buttons are a bit close together. I see what you're saying for sure, Im just trying to distinguish for you that though I am new I very much understand where you're coming from. i may not have grown to love it as you did, But I did grow to breathe it as you did. Please dont condemn the future for not being the past, things change that does not make them wrong. All your points are valid but I feel like the animosity toward the situation has been exaggerated by your nostalgia.

[Dudecore]

Removing some of the complexity doesn't generally "dumb the game down" in my opinion. Some of the complexity was needlessly difficult to understand, not intuitive or discouraged certain things. Things like mana burn had too many memory issues, it didnt make any sense and rarely contributed to game swings. The new legendary rule just makes legendary cards meaningless - stupid change but I don't think it makes the game easier to play

One of the biggest problems overall is the Reserve list. Instead of new players getting into Standard, then moving toward the deep end of the pool (legacy, vintage) that move is impossible now because of cost. I (and many others here) are fortunate to have played when Legacy was a thriving format, even the preferred format over type 2 (standard).

Another thing is the huge push toward creature combat. I understand degenerate gameplay for years and years on the part of blue and black mages, spells were just too good. But the push back has been a bit much for some. They've gone basically the complete other direction.

I can't begrudge Wizards for making a product we all enjoy. They make such a good product that most of us wish we had more money to purchase more of it. I do begrudge them for making tournament staples, super pushed cards at Mythic. Mythic was supposed to be an uncommon rarity because you'd most likely not want to draft that card/open it frequently ({Essence of the Wild}). Sometimes it did something no card ever did before it. Now it's the home of {Voice of Resurgence}, {Sphinx's Revelation}, {Rakdos's Return}, {Domri Rade} and {Blood Baron of Vizkopa} to name a few. I understand Wizards is a business, I know why they do it - but I don't have to appreciate it or buy it.

[Death Gaara]

Well put. Modern is so new that it's no surprise that Wizards is behind on giving it real support. I have faith they will come around now that the rules are well under control.

As for your examples of old school playing I did them all before I learned standard (except opening the mentioned cards).

Perhaps you did them, but did you do them for 7+ years like the rest of us? I am guessing maybe a year at most. Magic may improve, but WotC needs to start looking at everyone who is interested instead of just focusing solely on newer players. That is just my opinion though.

Haha nice mod mistake. The quote and modify buttons are a bit close together. I see what you're saying for sure, Im just trying to distinguish for you that though I am new I very much understand where you're coming from. i may not have grown to love it as you did, But I did grow to breathe it as you did. Please dont condemn the future for not being the past, things change that does not make them wrong. All your points are valid but I feel like the animosity toward the situation has been exaggerated by your nostalgia.

Sorry for the mod mistake. Anyways, I am just tripping over nostalgia. I simply do not like the direction of this game. Nobody is being hostile. I am just saying that the game that I enjoy is almost entirely gone. If anything, Magic feels more like a chore for me anymore. I find little fun in it anymore. I want to enjoy the game I really do. But I just can't with the way it is going. I am not condemning it for not being the past. I am point out how much has changed and raising the question why I should care anymore.

And DC hit the nail on the head. Mythic rarity was originally meant for story like purposes. Cards like Avacyn, Griselbrand, and other important characters from the lore or specific events should take this rarity spot. Anything that is just over the top. Enter the Infinite is an example of a properly made mythic. It doesn't matter though. Mythic rarity has just been an excuse to print powerful cards at a harder to get rarity just to sell booster boxes. It sickens me when I see this. Mythic rarity is a whole other monster on its own. Flavor and story was the base, but now it has evolved into just another way to sell packs to people that fork over money for them.

[Birdbrain]

@ Death Gaara I sort of agree with almost everything you said here, but on the other hand, Magic the Gathering was always expensive hobby. I remember quite a lot. I have played Magic since 1993/94 and even back then if you wanted to be competitive you had to invest a lot of money. But the thing is that nowadays we have more high value cards then bfr... Wider and bigger market... Bigger demand for the certain cards... Simply free market...

But I have to agree with your point about the games tendencies... They sacrificed so much to make the game more friendly to new players. But I hope they will balance the game again... This happened in past few times already...

one word: interrupts

[Mikefrompluto]

http://www.wizards.com/magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/mm/259

I thought this was a good read.

[Double-O-Scotch]

Two words : mono artifact

[Dudecore]

http://www.wizards.com/magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/mm/259

I thought this was a good read.

I'd read this. I think he glances over #6, which is slowly devouring the entire portion of the game.

[Mikefrompluto]

http://www.wizards.com/magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/mm/259

I thought this was a good read.

I'd read this. I think he glances over #6, which is slowly devouring the entire portion of the game.

Yeah, I don't get why they care about keeping collector's happy. The game is made up 90% of people who play it rather than collect cards. It doesn't make sense.

[whitedrake]

@ Death Gaara I sort of agree with almost everything you said here, but on the other hand, Magic the Gathering was always expensive hobby. I remember quite a lot. I have played Magic since 1993/94 and even back then if you wanted to be competitive you had to invest a lot of money. But the thing is that nowadays we have more high value cards then bfr... Wider and bigger market... Bigger demand for the certain cards... Simply free market...

But I have to agree with your point about the games tendencies... They sacrificed so much to make the game more friendly to new players. But I hope they will balance the game again... This happened in past few times already...

one word: interrupts

Imho that change of rules was only positive... If you have played before rules about stack were stated then you would see that the change was really needed... And unifiyng interrupts and mana source spells to one group with instants was the good idea...

[rarehuntertay]

Two words : mono artifact

Continuous artifact
Poly artifact
Remember when tap was the tilted 'T'? Or there was no tap symbol? When the card actually said 'tap to do this'...