Dragon's Maze (Baseless Speculation and Spoilers)

[FlickerYourOwnIdentity]

I literally cannot stand rdw and stuff like it, but why do control players feel like the master race? No one color should rule the pie, blue and white got  {Supreme Verdict}  {Azorius Charm}  {Feeling of Dread} just tons of things, why do you people complain so much about another color getting a good card??

I literally cannot stand people who make false assumptions about control players feeling like the master race. See? I can whine meaningless banter too. Nowhere did I say aggro was beneath me nor did I say control is the only way to play magic. I am implying that WotC does not have variance in a type of game that thrives on variance. What is the point in playing a card game where the only strategies are attack, attack, and attack. I am not whining about control. I am saying that WotC pushed aggro very far the past few years. I am fine with that. Sure, whatever works for people. But what I do not understand is why on earth they continue to add cards to their existing pool. Seriously tell me this sounds right to you. Aggro has

{Boros Reckoner}
{Falkenwrath Aristocrat}
{Huntmaster of the Fells}
{Restoration Angel}
{Hellrider}
{Thundermaw Hellkite}
{Thragtusk}
{Burning Tree Emissary}
{Flinthoof Boar}
{Champion of the Parish}
Xx many more I do not want to list

Control on the other hand has only one measly reliable way to draw cards right now. And to top this off, many of those aggro creatures have ETB abilities. So this new Boros card effectively makes us lose the ability to wrath when needed, and the the aggro players get more activations off of Thundermaw, Huntmaster, Thragtusk, Restoration Angel, etc.

The fact of the matter is Aggro is incredibly pushed right now and to compensate for other style decks WotC has decided to push it even more. This agitates me. There is no point in playing a card game where I can use different cards to make a deck I want when the only deck that even has a chance is Aggro. I am not above playing Aggro. I just think that it is pointless to play a card game where all you do is attack. I could get the same enjoyment doing the same thing by button mashing a fighting game for much less money.

Let me ask you this. Why do you play Magic? What makes it fun?

For me it was a few different things. The first reason was of its complexity. I wanted an outlet that let me engage my mind in a non destructive way. Magic let me match wits with people and play mind games without actually hurting anyone. I also enjoyed the variance. My buddy could be playing an Aggro deck that sought to play threats while my Control deck sought to answer these threats. It was a back and forth style fight with each side slowly giving way to the other. The options used to be endless! You could show up to a tournament and take it by storm with a random rouge combo or control deck that nobody saw coming. But then WotC went ahead and turned standard into a game of "WHO CAN DROP MORE CREATURES AND POWER FIRST!!!!". This began to eliminate variance in the game. Why would somebody play control when on turn 2 you could have 7-8 power on the board? This stupid mentality is leaking into Modern too. As far as I am concerned that format is close to dead at the rate it is going.

It is not about Control vs Aggro anymore. I have grown tired of that argument. However, it does not seem right that WotC gives Aggro an answer (Boros Charm) to control's only hope (Wraths) and then 2 sets later puts the nail in the coffin with another answer to wraths it did not need. Aggro was pushed, creatures became really powerful with amazing ETB abilities, and WotC decides to protect them from wraths, power them up, and let them reuse their amazing abilities again? For me it does not even matter if the card is good enough to be played or not. It is a matter of something is wrong with that mentality. Where is the sense of fairness? Where is the variance? There is none. The answer is simple. WotC is trying to appeal to the newer players that migrated over from a ton of other games that spammed attacking (see any number of video games, yugioh, pokemon, etc.). No, I am not hating on the newer players. I am glad the game is growing. I am saying that WotC no longer cares about their playerbase. They only care about pleasing the new players so they can make more money. Yeah it sucks, but that is business. WotC is not here to make people happy. They are here to make money. So they will listen to whichever side brings them the most profit. Sadly, the newer players seem to outnumber the old school veterans of the game. Why do you think that when people whine and cry for a ban that WotC delivers? They do not want to take the time of day to solve the problem. It is easier to complain until you get your way. That is why characters get nerfed in fighting games, and why Konami has a stupid long ban list for their unbalanced mess of a card game. Because people saw the need to keep complaining instead of working with what they had. There is no excuse for some of the cards on the Modern ban list. There is no excuse only one type of deck is playable in standard. There is no excuse why Modern costs so much money to get into after the promises they made. There is no excuse that players should have to suffer at the hands of collectors because of the reserved list.

It has evolved far past Aggro, Combo, and Control now. The poor business decisions, the unbalancing of a game that used to be balanced, and the little recognition to the players that made Magic what it is today are the problems.

Do not get me wrong. I love Magic a lot. I will probably play the game until either one of us dies whichever comes first.  But being a part of this game for so many years and seeing this increase in poor decisions really makes me wonder why I should care? WotC does not seem to care, so why should the players?

This is a +1 in my book, no a +100

I could not have said this in any way better even if I tried with every fiber of my being.  In fact if it is ok with you, I would like to send this to Mr. Rosewater.

[whitedrake]

I'm mad about {Legion's Initiative}. This is what went on when they designed this card:

"Hey, {Boros Charm} sucks. Boros needs more protection against control."
"I agree. Let's make a 2 drop creature that can sacrifice itself to make all your guys indestructable until end of turn."
"Hmm, I like it, but that still leaves control with one semi-playable boardwipe: {Terminus}. Let's have it exile your guys instead of make them indestructable."
"Ok, sure. But what if someone sneaks {Linvala, Keeper of Silence} into their standard deck. If this happens, the ability won't work! I say we make it an enchantment."
"Sweet deal. Our work here is done."
"I agree."

How this will prevent board wipes to clean the board? U can play the ability only as a sorcery...

You attack, pop the Initiative, leaving no creatures on the board. Pass the turn. Control player has nothing to wipe, play a land and pass the turn. Next turn everything comes back and attacks - dodging the wipe.

Mhmm the creatures will appear in opponents turn during combat phase... And opponent can wipe main phase 2.. it is not At beggining of ur next Combat phase it is At begging of next combat phase... If u use it in ur turn they will appear in opponents turn right...?

[Death Gaara]

I literally cannot stand rdw and stuff like it, but why do control players feel like the master race? No one color should rule the pie, blue and white got  {Supreme Verdict}  {Azorius Charm}  {Feeling of Dread} just tons of things, why do you people complain so much about another color getting a good card??

I literally cannot stand people who make false assumptions about control players feeling like the master race. See? I can whine meaningless banter too. Nowhere did I say aggro was beneath me nor did I say control is the only way to play magic. I am implying that WotC does not have variance in a type of game that thrives on variance. What is the point in playing a card game where the only strategies are attack, attack, and attack. I am not whining about control. I am saying that WotC pushed aggro very far the past few years. I am fine with that. Sure, whatever works for people. But what I do not understand is why on earth they continue to add cards to their existing pool. Seriously tell me this sounds right to you. Aggro has

{Boros Reckoner}
{Falkenwrath Aristocrat}
{Huntmaster of the Fells}
{Restoration Angel}
{Hellrider}
{Thundermaw Hellkite}
{Thragtusk}
{Burning Tree Emissary}
{Flinthoof Boar}
{Champion of the Parish}
Xx many more I do not want to list

Control on the other hand has only one measly reliable way to draw cards right now. And to top this off, many of those aggro creatures have ETB abilities. So this new Boros card effectively makes us lose the ability to wrath when needed, and the the aggro players get more activations off of Thundermaw, Huntmaster, Thragtusk, Restoration Angel, etc.

The fact of the matter is Aggro is incredibly pushed right now and to compensate for other style decks WotC has decided to push it even more. This agitates me. There is no point in playing a card game where I can use different cards to make a deck I want when the only deck that even has a chance is Aggro. I am not above playing Aggro. I just think that it is pointless to play a card game where all you do is attack. I could get the same enjoyment doing the same thing by button mashing a fighting game for much less money.

Let me ask you this. Why do you play Magic? What makes it fun?

For me it was a few different things. The first reason was of its complexity. I wanted an outlet that let me engage my mind in a non destructive way. Magic let me match wits with people and play mind games without actually hurting anyone. I also enjoyed the variance. My buddy could be playing an Aggro deck that sought to play threats while my Control deck sought to answer these threats. It was a back and forth style fight with each side slowly giving way to the other. The options used to be endless! You could show up to a tournament and take it by storm with a random rouge combo or control deck that nobody saw coming. But then WotC went ahead and turned standard into a game of "WHO CAN DROP MORE CREATURES AND POWER FIRST!!!!". This began to eliminate variance in the game. Why would somebody play control when on turn 2 you could have 7-8 power on the board? This stupid mentality is leaking into Modern too. As far as I am concerned that format is close to dead at the rate it is going.

It is not about Control vs Aggro anymore. I have grown tired of that argument. However, it does not seem right that WotC gives Aggro an answer (Boros Charm) to control's only hope (Wraths) and then 2 sets later puts the nail in the coffin with another answer to wraths it did not need. Aggro was pushed, creatures became really powerful with amazing ETB abilities, and WotC decides to protect them from wraths, power them up, and let them reuse their amazing abilities again? For me it does not even matter if the card is good enough to be played or not. It is a matter of something is wrong with that mentality. Where is the sense of fairness? Where is the variance? There is none. The answer is simple. WotC is trying to appeal to the newer players that migrated over from a ton of other games that spammed attacking (see any number of video games, yugioh, pokemon, etc.). No, I am not hating on the newer players. I am glad the game is growing. I am saying that WotC no longer cares about their playerbase. They only care about pleasing the new players so they can make more money. Yeah it sucks, but that is business. WotC is not here to make people happy. They are here to make money. So they will listen to whichever side brings them the most profit. Sadly, the newer players seem to outnumber the old school veterans of the game. Why do you think that when people whine and cry for a ban that WotC delivers? They do not want to take the time of day to solve the problem. It is easier to complain until you get your way. That is why characters get nerfed in fighting games, and why Konami has a stupid long ban list for their unbalanced mess of a card game. Because people saw the need to keep complaining instead of working with what they had. There is no excuse for some of the cards on the Modern ban list. There is no excuse only one type of deck is playable in standard. There is no excuse why Modern costs so much money to get into after the promises they made. There is no excuse that players should have to suffer at the hands of collectors because of the reserved list.

It has evolved far past Aggro, Combo, and Control now. The poor business decisions, the unbalancing of a game that used to be balanced, and the little recognition to the players that made Magic what it is today are the problems.

Do not get me wrong. I love Magic a lot. I will probably play the game until either one of us dies whichever comes first.  But being a part of this game for so many years and seeing this increase in poor decisions really makes me wonder why I should care? WotC does not seem to care, so why should the players?

This is a +1 in my book, no a +100

I could not have said this in any way better even if I tried with every fiber of my being.  In fact if it is ok with you, I would like to send this to Mr. Rosewater.

Go for it bro. I speak my mind and don't really care who reads it. If I did not want it publicly known, then I would have not post it on a public forum.

[5/9 Turtle]

Who's Mr.Rosewater

[Dudecore]

It's all because we let people cry and cry about {Snapcaster Mage} and he's been the most viable control card since nearly a year ago. Wizards calls it a mistake! A mistake that blue had a great card. So they tried and tried to hose him - {Grafdigger's Cage}, {Ash Zealot}, {Cavern of Souls}, {Dryad Militant}, ect ect. All with various results. Eventually they just didnt print anything worth it for him to target - and the voices fell silent.

Meanwhile {Thragtusk} is in 100% of any deck playing green, and since those players benefit from tapping 5 and hitting a homerun - it's good for everyone! Not a mistake. Green is the new blue, time for everyone to stop complaining.

[whitedrake]

One of the MTG designers..

[Dudecore]

Mhmm the creatures will appear in opponents turn during combat phase... And opponent can wipe main phase 2.. it is not At beggining of ur next Combat phase it is At begging of next combat phase... If u use it in ur turn they will appear in opponents turn right...?

Then you make them double Wrath for 8 mana+. If you go to wrath, pop the initiative and dodge it, then they come back during your combat and stick. Not to mention reusing your {Huntmaster of the Fells}, {Restoration Angel} and {Thragtusk} in the Naya decks.

Oh yeah, it buffs them with an anthem effect to boot. Something Boros definitely needed...more power.

Also what isn't being mentioned is that this card is 150% a ploy to sell packs. It's insanely playable and printed at Mythic rare as a chase card. Mythics were originally designed to print cards that they've never done before, or something less playable that had big effects on it. Now? Anything useable is printed at that rarity. Magic has become a sickening joke at this point, completely devoid of its more interesting aspects.

[InfinitiveDivinity]

Mhmm the creatures will appear in opponents turn during combat phase... And opponent can wipe main phase 2.. it is not At beggining of ur next Combat phase it is At begging of next combat phase... If u use it in ur turn they will appear in opponents turn right...?

Then you make them double Wrath for 8 mana+. If you go to wrath, pop the initiative and dodge it, then they come back during your combat and stick. Not to mention reusing your {Huntmaster of the Fells}, {Restoration Angel} and {Thragtusk} in the Naya decks.

Oh yeah, it buffs them with an anthem effect to boot. Something Boros definitely needed...more power.

Also what isn't being mentioned is that this card is 150% a ploy to sell packs. It's insanely playable and printed at Mythic rare as a chase card. Mythics were originally designed to print cards that they've never done before, or something less playable that had big effects on it. Now? Anything useable is printed at that rarity. Magic has become a sickening joke at this point, completely devoid of its more interesting aspects.

Which is why I hate Standard and I've been playing Modern, Pauper and EDH.

[Death Gaara]

Mhmm the creatures will appear in opponents turn during combat phase... And opponent can wipe main phase 2.. it is not At beggining of ur next Combat phase it is At begging of next combat phase... If u use it in ur turn they will appear in opponents turn right...?

Then you make them double Wrath for 8 mana+. If you go to wrath, pop the initiative and dodge it, then they come back during your combat and stick. Not to mention reusing your {Huntmaster of the Fells}, {Restoration Angel} and {Thragtusk} in the Naya decks.

Oh yeah, it buffs them with an anthem effect to boot. Something Boros definitely needed...more power.

Also what isn't being mentioned is that this card is 150% a ploy to sell packs. It's insanely playable and printed at Mythic rare as a chase card. Mythics were originally designed to print cards that they've never done before, or something less playable that had big effects on it. Now? Anything useable is printed at that rarity. Magic has become a sickening joke at this point, completely devoid of its more interesting aspects.

I agree. You also forgot to mention Boros Charm in conjunction with this card. An aggro deck does not need 8 cards in a deck to stop wraths. Dudecore, your analysis on mythic rarity was also correct. Avacyn, Griselbrand, Enter the Infinite, Praetors, Omniscience, Baneslayer, these feel like mythics to me. RW Anthem effects and a mediocre form of card draw do not. Rather, they appear to just be a quick attempt at printing hard to get cards that will make people more inclined to buy more packs. Right, because WotC is in danger of going out of business sometime soon. We have a term for this in the business world my friends. It is called a cash cow. And WotC is milking it something good.

[Vyse]

I literally cannot stand rdw and stuff like it, but why do control players feel like the master race? No one color should rule the pie, blue and white got  {Supreme Verdict}  {Azorius Charm}  {Feeling of Dread} just tons of things, why do you people complain so much about another color getting a good card??

I literally cannot stand people who make false assumptions about control players feeling like the master race. See? I can whine meaningless banter too. Nowhere did I say aggro was beneath me nor did I say control is the only way to play magic. I am implying that WotC does not have variance in a type of game that thrives on variance. What is the point in playing a card game where the only strategies are attack, attack, and attack. I am not whining about control. I am saying that WotC pushed aggro very far the past few years. I am fine with that. Sure, whatever works for people. But what I do not understand is why on earth they continue to add cards to their existing pool. Seriously tell me this sounds right to you. Aggro has

{Boros Reckoner}
{Falkenwrath Aristocrat}
{Huntmaster of the Fells}
{Restoration Angel}
{Hellrider}
{Thundermaw Hellkite}
{Thragtusk}
{Burning Tree Emissary}
{Flinthoof Boar}
{Champion of the Parish}
Xx many more I do not want to list

Control on the other hand has only one measly reliable way to draw cards right now. And to top this off, many of those aggro creatures have ETB abilities. So this new Boros card effectively makes us lose the ability to wrath when needed, and the the aggro players get more activations off of Thundermaw, Huntmaster, Thragtusk, Restoration Angel, etc.

The fact of the matter is Aggro is incredibly pushed right now and to compensate for other style decks WotC has decided to push it even more. This agitates me. There is no point in playing a card game where I can use different cards to make a deck I want when the only deck that even has a chance is Aggro. I am not above playing Aggro. I just think that it is pointless to play a card game where all you do is attack. I could get the same enjoyment doing the same thing by button mashing a fighting game for much less money.

Let me ask you this. Why do you play Magic? What makes it fun?

For me it was a few different things. The first reason was of its complexity. I wanted an outlet that let me engage my mind in a non destructive way. Magic let me match wits with people and play mind games without actually hurting anyone. I also enjoyed the variance. My buddy could be playing an Aggro deck that sought to play threats while my Control deck sought to answer these threats. It was a back and forth style fight with each side slowly giving way to the other. The options used to be endless! You could show up to a tournament and take it by storm with a random rouge combo or control deck that nobody saw coming. But then WotC went ahead and turned standard into a game of "WHO CAN DROP MORE CREATURES AND POWER FIRST!!!!". This began to eliminate variance in the game. Why would somebody play control when on turn 2 you could have 7-8 power on the board? This stupid mentality is leaking into Modern too. As far as I am concerned that format is close to dead at the rate it is going.

It is not about Control vs Aggro anymore. I have grown tired of that argument. However, it does not seem right that WotC gives Aggro an answer (Boros Charm) to control's only hope (Wraths) and then 2 sets later puts the nail in the coffin with another answer to wraths it did not need. Aggro was pushed, creatures became really powerful with amazing ETB abilities, and WotC decides to protect them from wraths, power them up, and let them reuse their amazing abilities again? For me it does not even matter if the card is good enough to be played or not. It is a matter of something is wrong with that mentality. Where is the sense of fairness? Where is the variance? There is none. The answer is simple. WotC is trying to appeal to the newer players that migrated over from a ton of other games that spammed attacking (see any number of video games, yugioh, pokemon, etc.). No, I am not hating on the newer players. I am glad the game is growing. I am saying that WotC no longer cares about their playerbase. They only care about pleasing the new players so they can make more money. Yeah it sucks, but that is business. WotC is not here to make people happy. They are here to make money. So they will listen to whichever side brings them the most profit. Sadly, the newer players seem to outnumber the old school veterans of the game. Why do you think that when people whine and cry for a ban that WotC delivers? They do not want to take the time of day to solve the problem. It is easier to complain until you get your way. That is why characters get nerfed in fighting games, and why Konami has a stupid long ban list for their unbalanced mess of a card game. Because people saw the need to keep complaining instead of working with what they had. There is no excuse for some of the cards on the Modern ban list. There is no excuse only one type of deck is playable in standard. There is no excuse why Modern costs so much money to get into after the promises they made. There is no excuse that players should have to suffer at the hands of collectors because of the reserved list.

It has evolved far past Aggro, Combo, and Control now. The poor business decisions, the unbalancing of a game that used to be balanced, and the little recognition to the players that made Magic what it is today are the problems.

Do not get me wrong. I love Magic a lot. I will probably play the game until either one of us dies whichever comes first.  But being a part of this game for so many years and seeing this increase in poor decisions really makes me wonder why I should care? WotC does not seem to care, so why should the players?

I want to first inform you I read all of your post. Second I can't really even type a rebuttal up because I do only play standard and draft, but less and less of standard because yes it is an aggro heavy format. However there are answers. I see the power creep, believe me I know it's rediculous, but counter spells exist. You have acces to several wraiths. You have acces to bounce spells. You were given {blind obedience}. You were given creatures with etb as well {augur of bolas} {snapcaster mage} {restoration angel}.
  Magic was after all designed to be won after losing your life or your mind, and which is faster to destroy? I've read your articles dg, but your post just disgusts me. I thought you were better than just complaining about big fattys, I thought you made answers. That's all I was trying to state in my previous post, that these aggro heavy decks can be worked around, that this card really shouldn't cause so much butthurt. You seemed capable of working around aggro.
You then took a side tangent off into how Wotc is just out to make money, and again I completely agree. I don't even have to say anything past commanders arsenal and any modern masters sets.
I just don't see why this raised such a storm. Aggro players were astounded by {supreme verdict} and I remember seeing the same butthurt on other forums from that in the past. Lets not forget the rest of the set hasnt even been spoiled yet, there could still be some amazing answers. I still like the azourious champion, she's not great but she seems abusable. Anyway like I stated I can't really contend a lot of your points because I'm not an eternal format player, it's too hard to get into here in the Midwest. But I've stated my opinion and there you have it.

[Dudecore]

The official card preview broke this card immediately, no thought required. "Thragtusk makes a 3/3, then comes back and gains me five life. Huntmaster makes me a 2/2 and gains me two life. The Restoration Angel then blinks the Thragtusk again (or the Huntmaster of the Fells, if you want to attack with the Thragtusk instead), making a second 3/3 token, gaining me five more life, then the Restoration Angel and the Huntmaster of the Fells can still deal six damage with haste. It's like a blink deluxe!

For those not keeping track I gained 12 life, and ended up with 18 power on the board."

Boros Charm next turn to assure victory.

It's not a mythic rare, the card is strictly to chase packs. For that matter, it's no mistake that the only playable draw card is a mythic either. {Blue Sun's Zenith}/{Stroke of Genius} with life gain attached to it? Mind blowing! Be sure to keep this out of casual players hands - they won't grasp the concept.

{Liege of the Tangle} is a mythic rare. You wouldn't be happy to open one, so you wouldn't want it at rare, it does something nothing else does and it assures that people who like those cards can get one.

[FlickerYourOwnIdentity]

Hopefully they at least think of a bringing in an answer to it.  Because there really isn't.  Besides the countless enchantment removal we have right now.  That is my problem.  You guys are totally right, but your whining, make use of your resources said Dudecore.  But you guys aren't acting on your words, use a {Keening Apparation}, or even GOD FORBID a {Naturalize}!  Control will live on, just make do for now, but don't get caught up in the craze of aggro.  Make it so we can say as control players that we will not stand for this s***!  Come on, either complain, or build a deck that can answer what they have that is a problem!!!

[Vyse]

Extremely extremely well said flicker.

[Dudecore]

Hopefully they at least think of a bringing in an answer to it.  Because there really isn't.  Besides the countless enchantment removal we have right now.  That is my problem.  You guys are totally right, but your whining, make use of your resources said Dudecore.  But you guys aren't acting on your words, use a {Keening Apparation}, or even GOD FORBID a {Naturalize}!  Control will live on, just make do for now, but don't get caught up in the craze of aggro.  Make it so we can say as control players that we will not stand for this s***!  Come on, either complain, or build a deck that can answer what they have that is a problem!!!

I think you're missing the point. The fact is that control decks have been stretched SOOO far in the other direction that they mill you in 20 turns with {Nephalia Friggin' Drownyard}. Aggro decks get to play completely reactionary and dodge control, they're priced cheaply enough and they're too good not to {Dissipate}...then another hits. Not really enough playable options for control.

Sure they print answers, everything has an answer. Are they playable? Most likely not in a race against aggro. What is the purpose of playing {Naturalize} if It can't help me stabilize at all? I'm not winning the game at that point. I might as well just play aggro, and try to win a race - then have every control measure dodged.

[FlickerYourOwnIdentity]

I see, your going to keep complaining then.

You have fun with that, while I at least will act upon you inspiring words of "work with what you have." While you sit here and while, I'll make a deck that can, and will destroy aggro.