Dragon's Maze (Baseless Speculation and Spoilers)

[FlickerYourOwnIdentity]

I know how to deal with that.  Its as easy as 1...2....{Naturalize}

[Dudecore]

It's good to be getting out of Standard with all of the control hate spewing out of every easy aggro deck ever created. You really don't even have to try anymore. Turn everything sideways! Derp.

[Death Gaara]

It's good to be getting out of Standard with all of the control hate spewing out of every easy aggro deck ever created. You really don't even have to try anymore. Turn everything sideways! Derp.

I agree. The sad thing is this Derp mentality is migrating to Modern as well. It seems the only format that lets players play old school magic without breaking the bank is EDH. Even Modern is too expensive for its own good IMO. Think about it, they fix $25 shock lands with reprints. Now shocks are down to about $10 each. Problem is Fetches went from $17 to $30+. Not to mention the format staples like Crypic Command, Bob, Goyf, Clique, etc. We are effectively back at square one with modern being more expensive to get into than ever. While I do not like the Derp mentality of newer players, I feel bad for anybody who has not been playing that long. WotC has done a poor job handling both Standard and Modern. Legacy is pointless to get into if you are newer and who even plays Vintage? Pauper is not even FNM sanctioned. Where is WotC taking this game? Seriously WotC? White in Modern Jund decks? Why are they allowing so many decks to get away with greedy manabases? The format is easily defined by a few cards that hate other cards out of the format. If WotC was aiming towards a fun format where they could reprint staples they are seriously failing. I am calling it now people. Eggs is going to get the axe. I am already getting rid of my Eggs deck. I recommend other players do too. WotC hates anything that is not creatures nowadays. Some of these new cards prove that.


/off topic rant about WotC


DG

[Quackmaster5]

I actually really like the cluestones rather than the keystones.

[FlickerYourOwnIdentity]

Yeah I like the new keystones, again no one is talking about the mythic for azouris.

Ok now let's think.

It comes out targeting something like the keystones.  Draw up into something like ramp.  {Cloudshift} the new azouris mythic, targeting {Boundless Realms} or something.  Now all we need is a card that could be so big nobody could play it without that card.  Also, it needs to be a sorcery, or an instant.  Maybe an enchantment I don't know, but I want to see that kind of deck. 

[Vyse]

I literally cannot stand rdw and stuff like it, but why do control players feel like the master race? No one color should rule the pie, blue and white got  {Supreme Verdict}  {Azorius Charm}  {Feeling of Dread} just tons of things, why do you people complain so much about another color getting a good card??

[FlickerYourOwnIdentity]

What does most people play right now Vyse?  Aggro or control.

Is there any mentality to aggro, and if so, what about control, or reanimator, or tax, or mill, out of all of those archetypes which one is most played.

I think it is aggro, there are a lot of answers to control right now, there are very few viable counters in standard I believe too. 

This rant has been brought to you by
'The People Group Against Mindless Playstyle'

[Dudecore]

More on DG's point: look at the only really viable control decks. A deck that keeps the board clean so you can mill someone out with {Nephalia Drownyard}? That is ridiculous to even have to make that a deck. There are about 16 aggro decks that just cast creatures with various resiliency and swing for the fences. If that isn't good enough (like someone tries to stop it) make them indestructible! Give em Hexproof! Return them to your hand so you can get an ETB effect! Anything but think about what you're doing.

The fact is that if {Sphinx's Revelation} is the only viable way to draw any cards, something is wrong. That card is not nearly powerful enough in any other format to even warrent it's high price tag.

I understand that creatures have been on the weaker side of things for a long time, spells have been too crazy. Some spells I like being attached to creatures, because they're squishy and you can deal with them. But curving into a turn 5 win with an uncounterable  {Ghor-Clan Rampager}? Get outta town.

[whitedrake]

Omg this card seems insane... I love it...

http://www.mythicspoiler.com/dgm/cards/legionsinitiative.html

Bcs of this card I do not need to scrap my naya flicker after rotation...

[Dudecore]

I literally cannot stand rdw and stuff like it, but why do control players feel like the master race? No one color should rule the pie, blue and white got  {Supreme Verdict}  {Azorius Charm}  {Feeling of Dread} just tons of things, why do you people complain so much about another color getting a good card??

I understand people play the game for different reason, of course people hate control and some hate aggro. Some people (like me personally) cannot play aggro, I don't get a stitch of enjoyment out of it. However, I'm not even given a chance to punish people playing aggro! There is no meat on the bone for the control player. I'd like to think I'm a good player, I've done it long enough and have quite a good grasp of the concepts that make this game enjoyable.

It's the battle of wits I enjoy, but I'd also like my hard work and skillful choices to pay dividends. I don't perceive dropping creatures and swinging every turn particularly hard work. I also reserve the right to abandon the format and complain about it - which I'm exercising right now.

[whitedrake]

I'm mad about {Legion's Initiative}. This is what went on when they designed this card:

"Hey, {Boros Charm} sucks. Boros needs more protection against control."
"I agree. Let's make a 2 drop creature that can sacrifice itself to make all your guys indestructable until end of turn."
"Hmm, I like it, but that still leaves control with one semi-playable boardwipe: {Terminus}. Let's have it exile your guys instead of make them indestructable."
"Ok, sure. But what if someone sneaks {Linvala, Keeper of Silence} into their standard deck. If this happens, the ability won't work! I say we make it an enchantment."
"Sweet deal. Our work here is done."
"I agree."

How this will prevent board wipes to clean the board? U can play the ability only as a sorcery...

[FlickerYourOwnIdentity]

We are talking about modern in this sense right, because you can't play it in standard right now.  In fact your referring to a combo deck, which I personally find that to be a love hate relashionship.  I enjoy it, but it is easily disrupted.

[Dudecore]

I'm mad about {Legion's Initiative}. This is what went on when they designed this card:

"Hey, {Boros Charm} sucks. Boros needs more protection against control."
"I agree. Let's make a 2 drop creature that can sacrifice itself to make all your guys indestructable until end of turn."
"Hmm, I like it, but that still leaves control with one semi-playable boardwipe: {Terminus}. Let's have it exile your guys instead of make them indestructable."
"Ok, sure. But what if someone sneaks {Linvala, Keeper of Silence} into their standard deck. If this happens, the ability won't work! I say we make it an enchantment."
"Sweet deal. Our work here is done."
"I agree."

How this will prevent board wipes to clean the board? U can play the ability only as a sorcery...

You attack, pop the Initiative, leaving no creatures on the board. Pass the turn. Control player has nothing to wipe, play a land and pass the turn. Next turn everything comes back and attacks - dodging the wipe.

[Death Gaara]

I literally cannot stand rdw and stuff like it, but why do control players feel like the master race? No one color should rule the pie, blue and white got  {Supreme Verdict}  {Azorius Charm}  {Feeling of Dread} just tons of things, why do you people complain so much about another color getting a good card??

I literally cannot stand people who make false assumptions about control players feeling like the master race. See? I can whine meaningless banter too. Nowhere did I say aggro was beneath me nor did I say control is the only way to play magic. I am implying that WotC does not have variance in a type of game that thrives on variance. What is the point in playing a card game where the only strategies are attack, attack, and attack. I am not whining about control. I am saying that WotC pushed aggro very far the past few years. I am fine with that. Sure, whatever works for people. But what I do not understand is why on earth they continue to add cards to their existing pool. Seriously tell me this sounds right to you. Aggro has

{Boros Reckoner}
{Falkenwrath Aristocrat}
{Huntmaster of the Fells}
{Restoration Angel}
{Hellrider}
{Thundermaw Hellkite}
{Thragtusk}
{Burning Tree Emissary}
{Flinthoof Boar}
{Champion of the Parish}
Xx many more I do not want to list

Control on the other hand has only one measly reliable way to draw cards right now. And to top this off, many of those aggro creatures have ETB abilities. So this new Boros card effectively makes us lose the ability to wrath when needed, and the the aggro players get more activations off of Thundermaw, Huntmaster, Thragtusk, Restoration Angel, etc.

The fact of the matter is Aggro is incredibly pushed right now and to compensate for other style decks WotC has decided to push it even more. This agitates me. There is no point in playing a card game where I can use different cards to make a deck I want when the only deck that even has a chance is Aggro. I am not above playing Aggro. I just think that it is pointless to play a card game where all you do is attack. I could get the same enjoyment doing the same thing by button mashing a fighting game for much less money.

Let me ask you this. Why do you play Magic? What makes it fun?

For me it was a few different things. The first reason was of its complexity. I wanted an outlet that let me engage my mind in a non destructive way. Magic let me match wits with people and play mind games without actually hurting anyone. I also enjoyed the variance. My buddy could be playing an Aggro deck that sought to play threats while my Control deck sought to answer these threats. It was a back and forth style fight with each side slowly giving way to the other. The options used to be endless! You could show up to a tournament and take it by storm with a random rouge combo or control deck that nobody saw coming. But then WotC went ahead and turned standard into a game of "WHO CAN DROP MORE CREATURES AND POWER FIRST!!!!". This began to eliminate variance in the game. Why would somebody play control when on turn 2 you could have 7-8 power on the board? This stupid mentality is leaking into Modern too. As far as I am concerned that format is close to dead at the rate it is going.

It is not about Control vs Aggro anymore. I have grown tired of that argument. However, it does not seem right that WotC gives Aggro an answer (Boros Charm) to control's only hope (Wraths) and then 2 sets later puts the nail in the coffin with another answer to wraths it did not need. Aggro was pushed, creatures became really powerful with amazing ETB abilities, and WotC decides to protect them from wraths, power them up, and let them reuse their amazing abilities again? For me it does not even matter if the card is good enough to be played or not. It is a matter of something is wrong with that mentality. Where is the sense of fairness? Where is the variance? There is none. The answer is simple. WotC is trying to appeal to the newer players that migrated over from a ton of other games that spammed attacking (see any number of video games, yugioh, pokemon, etc.). No, I am not hating on the newer players. I am glad the game is growing. I am saying that WotC no longer cares about their playerbase. They only care about pleasing the new players so they can make more money. Yeah it sucks, but that is business. WotC is not here to make people happy. They are here to make money. So they will listen to whichever side brings them the most profit. Sadly, the newer players seem to outnumber the old school veterans of the game. Why do you think that when people whine and cry for a ban that WotC delivers? They do not want to take the time of day to solve the problem. It is easier to complain until you get your way. That is why characters get nerfed in fighting games, and why Konami has a stupid long ban list for their unbalanced mess of a card game. Because people saw the need to keep complaining instead of working with what they had. There is no excuse for some of the cards on the Modern ban list. There is no excuse only one type of deck is playable in standard. There is no excuse why Modern costs so much money to get into after the promises they made. There is no excuse that players should have to suffer at the hands of collectors because of the reserved list.

It has evolved far past Aggro, Combo, and Control now. The poor business decisions, the unbalancing of a game that used to be balanced, and the little recognition to the players that made Magic what it is today are the problems.

Do not get me wrong. I love Magic a lot. I will probably play the game until either one of us dies whichever comes first.  But being a part of this game for so many years and seeing this increase in poor decisions really makes me wonder why I should care? WotC does not seem to care, so why should the players?

[whitedrake]

More on DG's point: look at the only really viable control decks. A deck that keeps the board clean so you can mill someone out with {Nephalia Drownyard}? That is ridiculous to even have to make that a deck. There are about 16 aggro decks that just cast creatures with various resiliency and swing for the fences. If that isn't good enough (like someone tries to stop it) make them indestructible! Give em Hexproof! Return them to your hand so you can get an ETB effect! Anything but think about what you're doing.

The fact is that if {Sphinx's Revelation} is the only viable way to draw any cards, something is wrong. That card is not nearly powerful enough in any other format to even warrent it's high price tag.

I understand that creatures have been on the weaker side of things for a long time, spells have been too crazy. Some spells I like being attached to creatures, because they're squishy and you can deal with them. But curving into a turn 5 win with an uncounterable  {Ghor-Clan Rampager}? Get outta town.

Dude I fully agree with you, but as you said urself, it seems WotC have periods when they support control based decks and then creature decks... When I started to play one of the biggest Format II decks in my meta was Stasis... Mono blue control deck... Creatures decks were mostly too slow... And with all the counters that blue had u were not able to cast ur keycards...

But unfortunatelly it is always like this.. They are not able to make it balanced... And I am not sure if they want... They need to attract new players... That's the reason (in my opinion) why they made agrro so trendy... To play creature vomit deck u do not need any special experience... In fact maybe even trained monkey could pilot that kind of deck... But the point is that new players would not be able to pilot control decks not with no experience...

I am not sure if it gives any sense but hope you understand...