More uses for Sundial of the infinite?

[KulrathKnight]

Some beautiful uses of sundial are cards like {nacatl warpride},{seance},insert token gen here

Sorry dude.

As of Dark Ascension: "until end of turn" = "at the beginning of the next end step."

Sundial ends all "until end of turn" effects.

I imagine {Geist of Saint Taft} + {Sundial of the Infinite} would have been a VERY popular Standard combo, otherwise...

Incorrect. "at end of turn" was replaced with "at the beginning of the next end step".

Small, but it is a huge factor whether or not the sundial will affect it. "Until end of turn" was not changed, hence why the sundial will make tokens stay but not temporary buffs.

Geist + Sundial does create a permanent token.

[Kaleo42]

Yup, the only reason it's not popular is the set up and how simple it is to mess up.

[BlackJester]

That, and the fact that Sundial is really not Standard worthy on its own.  Fun for combos though!

[BlackJester]

No worries.  There's actually a very easy way to tell.  If it says "until", it'll be a continuous effect that lasts right up to the cleanup step.  If you ever see "at", "when", or "whenever" then it's a triggered ability that uses Le Stack.

[BlackJester]

True, but I do spy the word "at" in that sentence.

[BlackJester]

I think it's a difference between straight triggered ability and a delayed trigger which may be generated form another abilities like static or activated abilities.

I understand your confusion, though. But I think you can rely on "at, when, whenever"=trigger.

[Kaleo42]

Is that green {ball lightning}? I really do not like all that timeshifted nonsense.

[BlackJester]

Yep.

On the plus side, all this discussion about {Sundial of the Infinite} has made me realize that I should combo it with my {Groundbreakers}...

Well, you could.  But the exact wording on {Groundbreaker} (and {Ball Lightning}) means that it will trigger anytime there is an end of turn step.  This is different than a one-time delayed trigger, which will only happen once.

So, you'll get to keep the 6/1 until the end of THEIR turn, and then sac it.

[BlackJester]

They errata'ed it.  If you look at the text on the original 4th, and 5th ed., it specifically says "At the end of any turn, bury Ball Lightning."

If an ability like the one on {Seance} creates a delayed trigger, that trigger will hang out in limbo waiting to happen.  Once the game-state matches the trigger, it'll get put on the stack one time, an only one time.  That way, if you end the turn during your second main phase you'll skip your end step, letting you keep the creature until the next end step happens.  That's because the trigger is still lurking in the mist.

The trick with the 'dial is to wait until that trigger goes off, and THEN catch it with the dial and remove it.

And yes, I'm sure. 

I like the fact that Ball lighting rules include the lines "... the beginning of the end..."