Clarification on " Indestructible" please..

[RevanJJ]

Hi all,

I'm working on(when I can get the money) making an indestructible knight deck based around knight exemplar.

I just want to make sure I have the rules on indestructible correct. Here is what I know so far: They cannot be destroyed by damage, however damage is still assigned for cards that may have trample, lifelink, etc. I can be made to sacrifice them, they can be countered when on the stack, the die if their toughness hits 0(from counters or - cards like tragic slip both right?), and they can be exiled.

Am I missing anything? Also cards that say "if a card would be put into a graveyard this turn, instead remove it from the game(the old exile), would not apply right ? Because the damage can never make it go to the graveyard.

Thanks!!! Please let me know if I'm missing anything in my understanding please. Much appreciated.

[scarsabrex]

correct

[BadLuckIrish]

you mean things like if a creature damaged by this would be put in a graveyard exile it instead? ({Pillar of Flame} being one i believe)

If im right u can Pillar it then force them to sac it it should remove it from the game since indestructables still take damage.

[RevanJJ]

you mean things like if a creature damaged by this would be put in a graveyard exile it instead? ({Pillar of Flame} being one i believe)

If im right u can Pillar it then force them to sac it it should remove it from the game since indestructables still take damage.

"would be put in a graveyard" the damage wouldn't kill it, would it? Therefore the exile could not trigger.

[BadLuckIrish]

you mean things like if a creature damaged by this would be put in a graveyard exile it instead? ({Pillar of Flame} being one i believe)

If im right u can Pillar it then force them to sac it it should remove it from the game since indestructables still take damage.

"would be put in a graveyard" the damage wouldn't kill it, would it? Therefore the exile could not trigger.

'this turn'. It doesnt say how the creature has to die. Just he was damaged by pillar and he die this turn (by saccing). All quallifications are therr. its (if im right) i kinda delayed trigger.

[BadLuckIrish]

the first ruling to pillar of flame actually says that pillar doesnt need to kill just that it needs to die by anymeans THIS TURN.

[RevanJJ]

the first ruling to pillar of flame actually says that pillar doesnt need to kill just that it needs to die by anymeans THIS TURN.

Again, since no damage can kill an indestructible creature how does that kill him at any point in the turn, forcing him to be exiled due to Pillar? The damage is assigned, then does nothing to him.
So how does he die? If you put counters or -1 stuff on he'd die anyway w/ out need of Pillar, but i suppose doing Pillar on top of counters or something that forced me to sacrifice him would cause him to be exile as opposed to dead in the graveyard. The point I was making is that damage does nothing.  I guess if goal is to exile it would be helpful but only would need to play a  -*/-* type card that gets toughness to 0 to kill. By itself Pillar would seem to do nothing unless followed by something like that and then he'd be exiled as opposed to graveyard.  My whole question was simply about if cards like that on their own,  can exile the creature. On their own.

Should of been more clear I suppose. Was referring to cards like that or carbonize. Not referring to them in tandem with what I already knew like sacrificing and counters to 0 toughness.

[BadLuckIrish]

on thier own, no. I was just simply clarifying that if u could force them to die after a card like that it can exile them. Thats all i was pointing out

[Dudecore]

Like {Pillar of Flame} deals 2 dmg to an indestructible, doesnt kill it.

Then your opponent plays {Geth's Verdict}. You sac your only creature (the one damaged by {Pillar of Flame}). Exile it instead.

Let's say it's a 1/1 indestructible, and it's hit with {Tragic Slip}, it dies because it's toughness is 0.

If it is a 1/1 indestructible and is hit with {Pillar of Flame}, it is a 1/1 Indestructible with 2 damage.

[RevanJJ]

Like {Pillar of Flame} deals 2 dmg to an indestructible, doesnt kill it.

Then your opponent plays {Geth's Verdict}. You sac your only creature (the one damaged by {Pillar of Flame}). Exile it instead.

Let's say it's a 1/1 indestructible, and it's hit with {Tragic Slip}, it dies because it's toughness is 0.

If it is a 1/1 indestructible and is hit with {Pillar of Flame}, it is a 1/1 Indestructible with 2 damage.

[BlackJester]

To summarize, any effect that would destroy the indestructible creature doesn't. {Doom Blade}, {Day of Judgment} and similar try to destroy it and end up doing nothing to it instead. When a creature has lethal damage, the rules attempt to destroy it and do nothing instead. Other rules can kill it: 0 toughness, sacrificing, legend rule. It can still be exiled.
I think that's pretty much it.

[BadLuckIrish]

To summarize, any effect that would destroy the indestructible creature doesn't. {Doom Blade}, {Day of Judgment} and similar try to destroy it and end up doing nothing to it instead. When a creature has lethal damage, the rules attempt to destroy it and do nothing instead. Other rules can kill it: 0 toughness, sacrificing, legend rule. It can still be exiled.
I think that's pretty much it.

So, if you throw a {Red Sun's Zenith} or a Pillar for lethal damage at an indie, it'll still exile it, yes? Since technically it WOULD have died (similar to trample vs. indestructible)

No. Because it WOULD have but it didnt. It was still damaged though. Even if the damage WOULD be lethal, indestructable prevents it from dying. But the fact is is that pillar still damaged it. So if u {Grasp of Darkness}es it and it dies it would be exile because of the pillar.

[BlackJester]

No. Because it WOULD have but it didnt. It was still damaged though. Even if the damage WOULD be lethal, indestructable prevents it from dying. But the fact is is that pillar still damaged it. So if u {Grasp of Darkness}es it and it dies it would be exile because of the pillar.

The pillar says exile instead of destroy, though. That's my hangup here

The Pillar says: "Pillar of Flame deals 2 damage to target creature or player. If a creature dealt damage this way would die this turn, exile it instead."
This means that, after the pillar deals it's damage (which the indestructible creature still takes) then if the creature would go to the gy any time later that that turn, exile it instead.

[scarsabrex]

it says "exile not die", not "exile not destroy". there's a difference

[Juggalonoke]

Only -1/-1 counters and sac. abillities will kill little indestructible annoying things board sweeps and target damage or kill spells will not but when combined with a spell like {pillar of flame} they can be exiled from a lethal amount of damage in that single turn ex. Simaltaniously cast {shock} then {pillar of flame} targeting a {creepy doll}  lethal damage brings it to a state of death so it is there for exiled. If I'm right.