Opal Champion and Ixidron

[Kaylesh]

{Opal champion} on the field. Opponent casts {Ixidron}. What happens?

[Splicer]

1. Opponent casts {Ixidon}
2. {Opal champion} triggers, becoming a 3/3
3. Ixidon triggers, flipping it face down.

[particle]

1. Opponent casts {Ixidon}
2. {Opal champion} triggers, becoming a 3/3
3. Ixidon triggers, flipping it face down.

Right. The important thing is the timing. The champion triggers "when an opp casts a spell". So opponent casts {ixidron}, while it's on the stack before it resolves you can legally trigger your champion. Champion trigger resolves, becomes a creature. Ixidron resolves, flips champion.

[Kaylesh]

1. Opponent casts {Ixidon}
2. {Opal champion} triggers, becoming a 3/3
3. Ixidon triggers, flipping it face down.

Right. The important thing is the timing. The champion triggers "when an opp casts a spell". So opponent casts {ixidron}, while it's on the stack before it resolves you can legally trigger your champion. Champion trigger resolves, becomes a creature. Ixidron resolves, flips champion.

That part I get.
Thing is, what parts of the continues ability granted to the enchantment are gonna be overwritten by morphing?
The triggering if the enchantment creates a continuous effect that changes the permanent type, defines p/t to 3/3 and gives first strike.
Is this overwritten by 2/2 vanilla?

[Kaylesh]

1. Opponent casts {Ixidon}
2. {Opal champion} triggers, becoming a 3/3
3. Ixidon triggers, flipping it face down.

Right. The important thing is the timing. The champion triggers "when an opp casts a spell". So opponent casts {ixidron}, while it's on the stack before it resolves you can legally trigger your champion. Champion trigger resolves, becomes a creature. Ixidron resolves, flips champion.

That part I get.
Thing is, what parts of the continues ability granted to the enchantment are gonna be overwritten by morphing?
The triggering if the enchantment creates a continuous effect that changes the permanent type, defines p/t to 3/3 and gives first strike.
Is this overwritten by 2/2 vanilla?

It's only a 3/3 with FS if it's face up, cards don't maintain size or ability if they are face down

That's what I'd think, but there is a little discussion going on between the judges/rules nuts in our local FB group. Could you get some CR on that?

[rarehuntertay]

It's a case of "hidden" knowledge
Your opponent cannot look at your facedown cards, and you are not allowed to move them around in such a manner as to confuse them as to which is which.

So if one face down creature were a 3/3 with FS and another we're a 10/10 trampler, I know which one I'd want to doom blade but if I couldn't find it that would be BS. So a face down card is a 2/2 barring any field mods (all creatures you control get +1/+1 etc)

That being said cards that are face down have no abilities OTHER than morph (which is a special ability that exists/functions only as a means of flipping the card right side up. Most of the time a face down card has no features (name, color, cmc). Manifested cards have an unwritten text granting them the "ability" to flip for their cmc.

That covers most of what I can think of at the moment

A face down commander is still a commander and deals 2 points of commander damage.

[Deebiia]

1. Opponent casts {Ixidon}
2. {Opal champion} triggers, becoming a 3/3
3. Ixidon triggers, flipping it face down.

Right. The important thing is the timing. The champion triggers "when an opp casts a spell". So opponent casts {ixidron}, while it's on the stack before it resolves you can legally trigger your champion. Champion trigger resolves, becomes a creature. Ixidron resolves, flips champion.

That part I get.
Thing is, what parts of the continues ability granted to the enchantment are gonna be overwritten by morphing?
The triggering if the enchantment creates a continuous effect that changes the permanent type, defines p/t to 3/3 and gives first strike.
Is this overwritten by 2/2 vanilla?

Quick fun fact about {Ixidon} that happened to me the other day. Flipping the creature face-down is not morphing it of any sort. It just flips it face down with no mana cost or abilities. Had my commander flipped and a {Reverence} in the opponents pool.

[Deebiia]

1. Opponent casts {Ixidon}
2. {Opal champion} triggers, becoming a 3/3
3. Ixidon triggers, flipping it face down.

Right. The important thing is the timing. The champion triggers "when an opp casts a spell". So opponent casts {ixidron}, while it's on the stack before it resolves you can legally trigger your champion. Champion trigger resolves, becomes a creature. Ixidron resolves, flips champion.

That part I get.
Thing is, what parts of the continues ability granted to the enchantment are gonna be overwritten by morphing?
The triggering if the enchantment creates a continuous effect that changes the permanent type, defines p/t to 3/3 and gives first strike.
Is this overwritten by 2/2 vanilla?

Quick fun fact about {Ixidon} that happened to me the other day. Flipping the creature face-down is not morphing it of any sort. It just flips it face down with no mana cost or abilities. Had my commander flipped and a {Reverence} in the opponents pool.

If your commander had morph (do any legendaries have it besides Akroma?) then you could have flipped back but sounds like you got hosed...

Was a horrid time. Had fun, but Krenko being my commander I was hosed.

[Kaylesh]

Here's what popped out on the other forum:

Opal Champion's ability triggers upon casting of Ixidron, which occurs before it enters the battlefield and triggers its own ability, so it would make sense that both are treated the same. The Opal Champion's triggered ability creates a continuous effect which persists indefinitely. Ixidron changes Opal Champion's status to face-down, making it a 2/2 creature, but does not end the continuous effect. So, in the same way that Ixidor, Reality Sculptor buffs face-down creatures with the continuous effect created by his static ability, so too does the continuous effect from Opal Champion's ability modify the face-down creatures.

So: the continuous effect overwrites the 2/2 vanilla. Opal Champion will be a 3/3 first strike face down.
Kinda counterintuitive isn't it?

[griffin131]

Except that's not true.
That's like saying you could still tap a flipped {Dryad Arbor} for mana.
Animate a manland and cast Ixi and you'll have a 2/2 non land creature. It's the same thing.

[Oldschoolmtgnoob]

What if you had {humility} out and someone played {ixidron}?

[Double-O-Scotch]

You'd have a bunch of face down 2/2's blanketed by {humility} into 1/1's.

[rarehuntertay]

What if you had {humility} out and someone played {ixidron}?

All creatures would be 1/1 with no abilities, since humility is already in play

[Kaylesh]

What if you had {humility} out and someone played {ixidron}?

All creatures would be 1/1 with no abilities, since humility is already in play

Exactly. It is argued that the effect turning the Enchantment into the creature works the same way..

[griffin131]

What if you had {humility} out and someone played {ixidron}?

All creatures would be 1/1 with no abilities, since humility is already in play

Exactly. It is argued that the effect turning the Enchantment into the creature works the same way..

What enchantment is making it a 3/3 First Strike?
The face down card with no abilities?
How is something that has no abilities changing it's P/T and giving an ability?