Patrick Chapin

[Silent1236]

Thoughts?  Deserved game loss?  Judge being a douchenozzle?

[NovusOrbis]

By the rules, he should have taken the loss because judges aren't allowed to review video in their ruling, so even though the viewer knows that he took only what he could, nobody else would know. The Magic. show summed it up pretty nicely.

Personally, if someone did that to me I would just have them show me and apologize and keep playing, but people that take the game too seriously become real doo-doo heads at tournaments and even FNM.

[MuggyWuggy]

Well...
He went to turns with the judge, a red shirt at that.

That's for sure

#DTKPROTOUR

[Kaylesh]

https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/324o98/ruling_now_official_patrick_chapin_gets_gameloss/

He used {Ajani, mentor of heroes} to dig and didn't reveal the card.

[Kaylesh]

Read up on it. Being the pro tour, I think the judge is totally right to enforce the rules strict like that. The opponent is somewhat unsportsmanlike to call him on it like he did, knowing without a doubt it would lead to a GL being issued. These guys are pros, they know the rules.
On the other hand, Chapin is punished for being sloppy, which is not too pro either.
What we can learn from this; stay focused.

[Numbers]

Read up on it. Being the pro tour, I think the judge is totally right to enforce the rules strict like that. The opponent is somewhat unsportsmanlike to call him on it like he did, knowing without a doubt it would lead to a GL being issued. These guys are pros, they know the rules.
On the other hand, Chapin is punished for being sloppy, which is not too pro either.
What we can learn from this; stay focused.

Also keep in mind theres always the chance that it was intentional and Chapin was hoping his opponent wouldnt take notice. But i agree his opponent could have just reminded him to show it insteaded of calling a judge. But i will watch the game later tonight and give an updated opinion on it.

[MuggyWuggy]

when 50K is on the line, frack being nice when someone violates the game rules. Sorry money is money and they aren't there for fanboys

[General Kiwi]

Too much money on the line to let it slide. Chaplin is my favorite pro but this was handled the way it needed to be.

[Dsx Cherno]

A win is a win. And when 50k is up for grabs, I'm using everything I can. If my opponent is sloppy, I'm calling him. I'd expect the same to me. I've made a few sloppy mistakes at LGS level, and I was called in it everytime. I learned. I tightened up

[MuggyWuggy]

The problem I have is that despite him not revealing the card, he wasn't cheating. I feel like high level magic tournaments are more like lawyer battles where one guy tries to catch the other guy in a slip up.

he violated tournament rules, he probably wont ever make that mistake again

[Kaylesh]

Gotta call myself on my earlier statement. I only read and did not see the footage. Turns out the table judge called him, not the opponent. That opponent did participate in the argument that followed, but I understand that. He violated the rules, put the card in his hand without revealing, hidden information so not correctable -> game loss.
When you play pro, best not make fnm mistakes.

[Mattao19]

It's definitely a game loss but I feel so bad bc there was no intent he didn't cheat and it was an honest mistake.

Like at that level it's a game loss but it sucks for Chapin I'd have thought that the card spotter could help out Chapin or even have the judge ask the booth but apparently they aren't allowed.

[Kaylesh]

It's definitely a game loss but I feel so bad bc there was no intent he didn't cheat and it was an honest mistake.

Like at that level it's a game loss but it sucks for Chapin I'd have thought that the card spotter could help out Chapin or even have the judge ask the booth but apparently they aren't allowed.

Yep, that's what the fuss is all about. I saw a lvl 3 judge on reddit say it like this: "it doesn't matter 15000 people saw him pull a legal card. The 1 that matters didn't." Your opponent must be able to verify legal play/game state at all times. He couldn't here. Though I gotta admit it's harsh, but also prevents judges being bought. I mean, 50k on the line, let's offer judge 10.... Not saying it happens, but this way it can't ever.

[particle]

A few thoughts on this. First, I think it was completely unacceptable and inappropriate for the full conversation with Patrick and the Judge to be broadcast. Once they gave the final ruling the first time, they should have moved the camera away to the commentators. I understand players want an in depth look, but that was a terrible way to do it.
Next, ruling was absolutely right and applied absolutely right. All of the arguments Chapin presented were bad. Not saying he did anything intentionally, just think there was a lot of pressure, he was rushing due to time, and he looked like he had no sleep. But he still committed a games rules violation. Acting like he didn't know what constituted drawing a card seemed so silly. Saying that his opponent knew his other two cards, which may or may not be true, is completely irrelevant. Even if your whole hand was face up before ajani, if the new card made contact without being revealed it was drawn. And going to the camera isn't an option for the millions of other competitive matches happenings around the world so why should the feature match get special treatment. And even if you it could be proven which card he took, he still took an illegal action.

I understand Chapin was just trying to do anything he could to get it to a warning and I don't blame him. I feel bad that the whole conversation was broadcast when basically only the first three minutes should have been.

Edit: and he also played two lands in a turn that game. http://i.imgur.com/8M6wn4e.gifv. Man the ravages of competitive magic.

[Cender]

There was also the round 6 or 7 guy who returned his Scry land back to his hand so he could play it again.