The Problem with Modern

[MuggyWuggy]

Need a non 60 card deck to win
Change everything

[Dsx Cherno]

We could always bring back 40 card decks haha

[LinkCelestrial]

Would tron be classified as fair?  It's just some creatures, walkers, and boardwipes.  No combos or anything.

There is nothing fair about {Emrakul, the Aeons Torn}. I wouldn't call it a fair matchup but it's not unbeatable. Nearly every color has viable sideboard hate options. I actually like playing against tron.

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

Would tron be classified as fair?  It's just some creatures, walkers, and boardwipes.  No combos or anything.

There is nothing fair about {Emrakul, the Aeons Torn}. I wouldn't call it a fair matchup but it's not unbeatable. Nearly every color has viable sideboard hate options. I actually like playing against tron.

Most of the time he doesn't hit though.

It's definitely somewhere in the middle, it is sometimes interactive, but many times it just tries to ramp into {Wurmcoil Engine}s and Eldrazi.

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

Ari Lax posted a similar article today ( http://www.starcitygames.com/article/30305_Reformatting-Modern.html ) and many other Pros have agreed with PV (Ben Stark, LSV, etc.)

[Dsx Cherno]

I just accept that "unfair" decks are an inevitable part of competitive play. No rule says your deck has to be a product of your own creation (good luck enforcing it), and with the internet so ready to help, it's easy to find a deck that's nearly unmatched, build it, and call urself a champion.

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

For those interested, here are Ari Lax's points (pretty well summarized by Ktkenshinx from MTGSal):


1. Combo in Modern is flatter than in Legacy. In Modern, combo decks either win or do something that can't be recovered from by turn 3-4. In Legacy, you have all-in decks that win on turn 1-2, decks that win on turn 3-4, and decks that are built off synergies that are strong throughout the game.

2. BGx has the best tools in Modern. This is similar to a point I often make about how other colors get ***** like Leak/Cryptic Command/Serum Vision whereas BGx have some of the best answers in existence in Decay, TS, and IoK.

3. Banning things is bad. You have to ban way too much to stop combo and you can't ban BGx cards without screwing the format (COMBO EVERYWHERE) or screwing players.

4. Reprints are good! Bring back card advantage that BGx can't answer 1 for 1, like Accumulate Knowledge, Deep Analysis, etc. Bring back engines that don't go into BGx decks, like Tranquil Thicket cycling lands, Tangle Wire, Destructive Flow, etc.

5. New cards are good! Make combo more interactive, make decks that can beat BGx, make cards that don't just slot into BGx.

6. Bypassing Standard can be good! Modern Masters can feed cards into Modern without going through Standard, at least if Wizards wanted to use it like that.

7. Unbans might be good. Sword will help but might not be enough. AV and DTT are great options, with AV being more likely even if it's less "fun" to play against control/midrange hybrids with Flash threats like Faeries and UWR Flash. JTMS interesting but big supply problems.

[Mattao19]

That's the point of Modern though isn't it? If you want to always play vs non combo then standard is always there but for strong decks that have a lot of synergy and good deck building that's where Modern comes in. It's where every deck is unfair which makes them all fair!

Twin can win T4 with an infi combo= Unfair
Burn can punish the smallest of hesitation and win T3= Unfair
Junk Rhino being able to destroy your hand and slam a Rhino T3 = Unfair
RG Ramp being able to bust out a T3 Emrakul = unfair
Scapeshift being able to ramp up and cast a T4 backed up Scapeshift = unfair
Affinity ... No explanation needed = unfair

Every deck is unfair in Modern but that's what makes it sweet. Also just bc of the God draws for each deck is unfair doesn't mean anything there's plenty of games where the game is slow and plenty if games where Twin doesn't win T4.

Having said all this I'm a huge believer in unbanning BBE and JtMS and Visions

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

That's the point of Modern though isn't it? If you want to always play vs non combo then standard is always there but for strong decks that have a lot of synergy and good deck building that's where Modern comes in. It's where every deck is unfair which makes them all fair!

Twin can win T4 with an infi combo= Unfair
Burn can punish the smallest of hesitation and win T3= Unfair
Junk Rhino being able to destroy your hand and slam a Rhino T3 = Unfair
RG Ramp being able to bust out a T3 Emrakul = unfair
Scapeshift being able to ramp up and cast a T4 backed up Scapeshift = unfair
Affinity ... No explanation needed = unfair

Every deck is unfair in Modern but that's what makes it sweet. Also just bc of the God draws for each deck is unfair doesn't mean anything there's plenty of games where the game is slow and plenty if games where Twin doesn't win T4.

Having said all this I'm a huge believer in unbanning BBE and JtMS and Visions

The big point he is making is that there are too many combo decks that require you to have specific sideboard cards and not enough "fair decks." By "fair decks" he means non-linear decks and non-interactive decks, so even Twin and Junk are probably considered "fair." What he wants is fewer games of "lose game one, hope to find {Rule of Law}/{Leyline of Sanctity}/{Kor Firewalker}/{Rest in Peace}/{Spellskite}/etc. for games 2 and 3" Magic. Basically he wants more interactive matchups, he isn't complaining about the powerlevel of Modern.

[DimirOverlord1300]

I'm just gonna say that to me it seems very worthwhile for wizards to test out the format with unbans. I'm going to try to do my own research on this topic.

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

Hey guys, the discussion about PV's and Ari Lax's articles have been a little more....lively and constructive on other sites, but I want to make sure we get as many people to answer this poll as we can:

http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/596765-how-to-fix-modern

[Dsx Cherno]

Idk. Id love to have skullclamp. But everyone treats it like a black nazi

[cltrn81]

I could just imagine skullclamp in token decks.  Tokens already been getting a lot of love....don't think they need that much power.  Skullclamp would not be so bad if it did not insta-kill 1 toughness creatures

That was the oversight in design that deserves it to be a permanent-ban

[Dsx Cherno]

I could just imagine skullclamp in token decks.  Tokens already been getting a lot of love....don't think they need that much power.  Skullclamp would not be so bad if it did not insta-kill 1 toughness creatures

That was the oversight in design that deserves it to be a permanent-ban

If it wasn't for tokens, it wouldn't be that bad. Idk i had a killer skullclamp deck when the Mirrodin cycle came out. That was before i knew anything about the online community, or the banned list. I just bought cards and stomped my friends. Honestly, I still think the BR list is a joke, but oh well.

[Dmreiss]

I play Magic to have fun and social interaction.  When I play against an unfair deck I get cheated on both counts.  I don't want to sit down across from somebody and watch them play their deck and be so wrapped up in winning and storm counts, etc. that they cannot carry on a conversation.