Reserved list

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

I'm not going to commit to spending 300 on a volcanic island if it'll just be reprinted and have a value plummet.

Lots of people don't even play legacy/vintage when it's affordable. (See mtgo)

Don't throw a hissy fit if something isn't immediately in your budget that isn't actually played that much.

I bought my duals on the expectation that if I need the money I can sell them and get my money back. It wasn't an investment, I just expect to not lose $1000+ overnight.

someone on reddit suggested that wizards abolish the reserved list and also offer to buy high value cards on the reserve list at a reasonable price, i think this would be an okay solution

I'd be down for this or cltrn's suggestion.

This could work, assuming WotC is okay with it

[MuggyWuggy]

In legacy life is a usable resource. And I'd hate to give give up resources to my opponent for free.

Then get the "proper" mana base

Basically trade a few FNM wins in for 1 card at a time

[Rass]

@cltrn.

Yes there is more then money that makes the game. I completely understand that. That is s different argument. But then answer me this if your life was on the line to win would you want the duals or shocks?  In your stack.

[Dstyle1]

In legacy life is a usable resource. And I'd hate to give give up resources to my opponent for free.

Then get the "proper" mana base

Basically trade a few FNM wins in for 1 card at a time

That's why I have a proper mama base

[cltrn81]

My life like literal life and death?  I cannot see a scenario where that is applicable to magic.

Now would I play in a Lego tournament using fetches, 1 ABUR for a two color deck, and the rest a mix of shock and check lands?  Hell yes I would.  Would I have fun still?  Hell yes I would.  Would it guarantee me to lose?  Hell no it would not.

[Dstyle1]

My life like literal life and death?  I cannot see a scenario where that is applicable to magic.

Now would I play in a Lego tournament using fetches, 1 ABUR for a two color deck, and the rest a mix of shock and check lands?  Hell yes I would.  Would I have fun still?  Hell yes I would.  Would it guarantee me to lose?  Hell no it would not.

I meant life points like the 20 you start with.

[Rass]

My life like literal life and death?  I cannot see a scenario where that is applicable to magic.

Now would I play in a Lego tournament using fetches, 1 ABUR for a two color deck, and the rest a mix of shock and check lands?  Hell yes I would.  Would I have fun still?  Hell yes I would.  Would it guarantee me to lose?  Hell no it would not.

Good way to dodge the question.

All I'm asking is to be honest. Having the duel lands and other reserved list cards gives you an advantage over people who do not. You have a mirror match vs yourself. Same deck except one can use the reserved list cards. What's the percentage the reserved list wins. I would say at least 85% or more.

Yes you can play and have fun. But what the difference in actually winning?

[Mr_Fahrenheit]

My life like literal life and death?  I cannot see a scenario where that is applicable to magic.

Now would I play in a Lego tournament using fetches, 1 ABUR for a two color deck, and the rest a mix of shock and check lands?  Hell yes I would.  Would I have fun still?  Hell yes I would.  Would it guarantee me to lose?  Hell no it would not.

Good way to dodge the question.

All I'm asking is to be honest. Having the duel lands and other reserved list cards gives you an advantage over people who do not. You have a mirror match vs yourself. Same deck except one can use the reserved list cards. What's the percentage the reserved list wins. I would say at least 85% or more.

Yes you can play and have fun. But what the difference in actually winning?

I think that's a very arbitrary number. A lot more things need to be taken into consideration such as the deck itself, and even the order in which you get and use fetch lands and other in game decisions as well as the order in which your deck ends up. I don't think you could put a percentage on it. Though I have noticed that in a lot of legacy games wins aren't just wins. They are blowout wins. Especially when combo decks are involved. Of course there are the close games where it would make a difference. But I don't think you can say with anything close to certainty that the reserve list cards give an 85% better chance vs decks without them. It's all relative.

[Rass]

Well sometimes you have to handicap and that's where I see it.

Where would you put it at then?

[Falcon182]

Well sometimes you have to handicap and that's where I see it.

Where would you put it at then?

Play enough games and I would bet the difference becomes 2-4% tops. The times when you absolutely, positively HAVE to have an untapped dual land on your turn are so infrequent for most decks, I would say the differences should be negligible.

[Mr_Fahrenheit]

It's not about the untapped dual it's about the loss of life from using a shockland. And as I have never played a lot of or watched a lot of reserve list vs non reserve list I wouldn't even try to put a number on it. So many things affect the outcome of a game. Yes I am sure that decks with access to those cards would have e better chance of winning, just how much better I don't think can be accurately measured. It would even change from matchup to matchup, even game to game. I just don't think it's as overwhelming as you said it was.

But then again, I could be wrong. It's been known to happen

[Rass]

Well sometimes you have to handicap and that's where I see it.

Where would you put it at then?

Play enough games and I would bet the difference becomes 2-4% tops. The times when you absolutely, positively HAVE to have an untapped dual land on your turn are so infrequent for most decks, I would say the differences should be negligible.

The threat of having an untapped land on the field makes a big difference. Being able to not have to make the choice of paying two life help a lot so you can keep your mind free to make other decisions. I've just seen people who have similar skill level play.  The person who has the more valuable deck usually wins. Yes it can be overcome but most of the time it was that way with what I seen. I'm not gonna pull up the legacy/vintage and crunch those numbers. But there is a reason they are using the duals.

[Falcon182]

It's not about the untapped dual it's about the loss of life from using a shockland. And as I have never played a lot of or watched a lot of reserve list vs non reserve list I wouldn't even try to put a number on it. So many things affect the outcome of a game. Yes I am sure that decks with access to those cards would have e better chance of winning, just how much better I don't think can be accurately measured. It would even change from matchup to matchup, even game to game. I just don't think it's as overwhelming as you said it was.

But then again, I could be wrong. It's been known to happen

It is about the untapped dual. You don't have to shock yourself. Assuming you have fetches, having a fetch up represents an untapped land as much as an untapped land does. When your opponent passes the turn you fetch your shock land and let it enter tap, then your next turn it becomes the same card as a abur dual for almost every purpose.

[griffin131]

You don't seem to be considering net worth.
Investment:
the investing of money or capital in order to gain profitable returns, as interest, income, or appreciation in value.

Nope. Because things like magic cards aren't very liquid - at least not at the price you want for them. Net worth is liquid capital, not things like cars or houses that aren't paid off.

I do expect to sell eventually, and buying a piece of cardboard for $300 knowing it'll crash to $10 eventually is stupid.

If you expect to sell, then it's an investment. You even defined it up there - you don't want the value to go down, so you want it to go up.

Also, look at mtgo. Not very many people are interested in legacy and vintage. A reprint would severely damage the price of the originals. Right now, everyone who wants one has to get the original, and with the limited supply, drives prices up. If those people could buy a $10 version, they would. There would not be enough collectors to keep prices up

First of all, it's an assumption that a reprint would damage the price of the originals. Look at {Tarmogoyf}.
And I'm familiar with supply and demand - introducing more supply would increase demand past the supply point, leading to an increase in price, not a decrease as you've assumed.

Net worth is all of your assets, - all of your liabilities. Look it up.

I have. If it's not liquid (Magic cards aren't) it's not really an asset.

You didn't even read the definition of investment that I gave. Nor did I ever say I bought it on the intention that the price will go up so I can make a profit. My purpose is to be able to play with them in tournaments and not end up losing a bunch of money. Hence why I'm not buying 4 goyf, because those will eventually crash.

I did read it - assuming otherwise is rude. I even referenced your definition. Perhaps you should read my post that you reply to?

You bought something. You care about resell value, which means you don't want it to depreciate. Purchases rarely stay stagnant value wise (and being an intelligent person you know that), so if you didn't want them to depreciate, you want them to appreciate.
How does that not meet your definition?

There is nothing to back that claim up. In fact, mtgo has shown that it's exactly the opposite.

Really?  http://www.mtgstocks.com/cards/3494. Where's the value tank when MM reprinted it?  Oh wait - it went up?  Wow. So it's literally exactly what I said.

Wow. Maybe I have substantiated my claims...

[cltrn81]

How did I dodge a question when I even asked for clarification?  Either way my answer is yes and I thought that was clearly stated as well.