Ban List Discussion (speculation)

[DimirOverlord1300]

http://www.rebellion.es/magicrebel/articulo.php?idNoticia=3499
Website is in Spanish, but the important thing is what they claim is the change to the banned list:


I really hope this isn't true, I'm fine with TC ban and AV unban, but I don't think a Pod or DTT ban is necessary, and BBE should not be unbanned.

I used chrome to translate the article and they were saying that the update was already announced, but WOTC hasn't said anything, so I think it's just bs. According to them the next announcement isn't until like the 19th or something. I'll be super pissed if pod is banned. I just bought into the format and got most of pod, and if they ban a deck that is doing abnormally well mostly because of a deck they're already banning being oppressive I'll be very disappointed, and down a large amount of money.

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

I used chrome to translate the article and they were saying that the update was already announced, but WOTC hasn't said anything, so I think it's just bs. According to them the next announcement isn't until like the 19th or something. I'll be super pissed if pod is banned. I just bought into the format and got most of pod, and if they ban a deck that is doing abnormally well mostly because of a deck they're already banning being oppressive I'll be very disappointed, and down a large amount of money.

Yeah, I agree it is likely BS, but it is possible that through a miscommunication or mistranslation, the information was given out too early. As far as Pod goes, I understand because I have all but 4 cards out of a Pod 75, and it is the deck I will be playing if UWR Control can't recover in the meta.

[Mattao19]

Well tbh Pod is EXTREMELY POWERFUL!!! So is Scapeshift!!! Delver is REALLY FAST and can punish you hard! Twin can win outta nowhere and that's Modern it's a POWERFUL format!!! Please don't ban Pod bc that wrecks like 3 archetypes!!

Having said this Treasure Cruise should be banned for the same reason Deathrite is. Decks that shouldn't be able to run it do and it's excessively OP

[Mattao19]

I've played against it. It's meh. It just allows decks to not enter top deck mode. It itseKg doesn't do anything. It's not repeatable like Drs, it's not play this or die like Drs, etc

Uhhhh ya it is Delve is broken I doubt Dig will get banned but I wouldn't mind if it did. TC is almost always a game ended and can bring you back from the dead too

[DimirOverlord1300]

I'd be down for a dig ban. I HATE Scapeshift, and dig makes the deck REALLY GOOD.

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

I'm mostly tired of people being unwilling to change their decks to fit the meta. {relic of progenitous} for christs sake!  Even shuts off snappy and golf, and can shut down pod. Doesn't necessarily hurt your own graveyard, and any deck can run it. It can even replace itself, but heaven forbid having to change your deck to stay competitive. 😜

Yeah, why won't people play mainboard hate that isn't even entirely affective and doesn't actually stop any of the one drop 3/2s or two drop 8/7s that are attacking you?

[Mattao19]

Exactly ^^^ relic is mediocre at best

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

You are saying that relic doesn't really exile their graveyard?
It replaces itself so the takes up a spot argument is invalid

Who said anything about main boarding?

Relic is capable of one time exiling their graveyard, after which a fetchland, Gix Prop, SV, and Lightning Bolt all start adding back up to another TC. As for the mainboarding comment, many decks are starting to mainboard them because of its prevalence, and if you are sideboarding them, you are using 2-4 slots of your sideboard simply to fight a component of the deck, and on top of that, still need a {Pyroclasm}-esque affect, so now 6-8 of your sideboard cards are dedicated to Delver (if not more), and because of Delver's resiliency, that isn't enough. If you were to go up to 8-12, you start getting randomly screwed by other decks like {Living End} and Affinity. Fighting delver is a lose-lose for 90% of the decks in modern, and that is why {Scapeshift}, {Splinter Twin} and {Birthing Pod} are practically the only decks left in the competitive meta.

[Dmreiss]

They wouldn't unban DRS to counter Treasure Cruise, would they? Or is that just wishful thinking?

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

Agris, you forget about its tap ability

You also refuse to acknowledge that it's good against other decks like pod, control, living death, etc.

The tap ability isn't affective against Delver, it is marginal against Pod, Control is dead in modern, and so it Living End. So, it is an iffy card against one other deck.

The problem with remand is you counter something with it, then they untap and play it again. It's a bad card and shouldn't be played in any deck. 😜

I don't see how this is relevant to the discussion, but it is obvious you don't understand Modern too well if you don't get why Remand is good. It is almost a time walk and practically as good as a counterspell a huge amount of the time. It gains huge tempo swings and can be used to protect combo quite effectively.

They wouldn't unban DRS to counter Treasure Cruise, would they? Or is that just wishful thinking?

Probably just wishful thinking, it really isn't effective against Delver

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

Agris, you forget about its tap ability

You also refuse to acknowledge that it's good against other decks like pod, control, living death, etc.

The tap ability isn't affective against Delver, it is marginal against Pod, Control is dead in modern, and so it Living End. So, it is an iffy card against one other deck.

The problem with remand is you counter something with it, then they untap and play it again. It's a bad card and shouldn't be played in any deck. 😜

I don't see how this is relevant to the discussion, but it is obvious you don't understand Modern too well if you don't get why Remand is good. It is almost a time walk and practically as good as a counterspell a huge amount of the time. It gains huge tempo swings and can be used to protect combo quite effectively.

Isn't effective?  If you use it every turn it turns their treasure cruise into a 4 or higher cmc spell.

You don't use the tap ability against pod, you use it to interrupt their infinite combos

You were the one who brought up living end, and it's good against any deck with snappy.

The remand argument is exactly what you are saying. It's bad because it just delays them one turn.

Delver can generate more than enough spells to make TC cheap, and remember Delving is part of the cost, so you can't "in response"

Most Pod decks don't run infinite combos any more, and the deck can and always will be able to beat your face.

Living End is dead, and Snappy is maybe a 2 of in some decks (I think Scapeshift is running the most at two), but that doesn't mean you won't see UWR Control or Living End some in early rounds of a tournament.

Since when is {Time Walk} a bad card? Most decks playing {Remand} just want to push into the late game, so delaying your opponent a whole turn and drawing a card to answer the card later is pretty amazing. Just think about it: UWx control wants to get into the Colonnade late game, URx Splinter Twin wants to combo around turn 5 or 6, and {Scapeshift} can't usually win until they have 6 or 7 lands. For all of those decks, {Remand} is able to push them out of the early game and into the late. Plus it can be used to protect combo, for example if someone leaves a mana open to try and {Dismember} my {Pestermite} in response to {Splinter Twin}, I Remand and win.

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

I'm not saying remand is bad. I'm using it as an example of your flawed argument.

You obviously haven't played with relic. Give it a shot then come back to me

In the end Remand always has some sort of impact where as Relic does not. I have played with Relic for a while in my UWR control deck and the fact is the existence of relic shouldn't warrant Treasure Cruise's existance.

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

Interesting, I just read a Chas Andres article on SCG (bought a week of premium, it's $4, worth the read) and he is predicting {Birthing Pod} gets banned because WoTC feels Modern is too stale. Andres is well respected dude, so there is a chance the leaked banlist is true. Think about it: if BP got banned the format would be entirely blue, so BBE could be necessary to help balance it out. If WotC is trying to shake up the meta, that is what they will do.

[rarehuntertay]

 {Remand} also protects you. You can remand your own spell in response to them trying to counter it. You keep your spell, cantrip and force them to waste a spell.

[NovusOrbis]

I'll be that guy

Both do something to impact the game. Which one is better depends on what you're playing against.