Deflecting Palm

Started by Blazingblevins, October 09, 2014, 02:08:36 AM

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Blazingblevins

does {deflecting palm} let the game end in a tie if damage is prevented. How would it work in damage step if other damage happens at the same time?

Gorzo

There are actually a number of questions there, hopefully this answers them all.

So, deflecting palm doesn't actually do anything immediately. It creates what's called a "delayed trigger" - the next time you would take damage. Once this trigger is met, it's effect is added to the stack (one time) and, assuming no one responds, does it's effect and you're done. Damage is prevented to you, and you deal it elsewhere. Done and done.

Due to the stack, no damage can be done at the exact same time as the damage dealt by Deflecting palm. So there's no worries there, just follow the stack and its rules! As for damage that triggers the palm, that could potentially be done at the same time as other damage (during combat), in which case, simply sort out the sources. The damage coming from the source chosen by deflecting palm will be prevented, and the rest will come through as normal.

As for any ties, I don't think it's possible here. Since deflecting palm creates a one-time trigger, it's not possible to infinitely bounce triggers between two deflecting palms. It would simple go from A, deflect to B, deflect back to A and stick since his deflecting palm is over.

Hope that answers all your questions!

Remillo

As a point of correction, Deflecting Palm does not create a delayed trigger, since that implies something totally different.  Triggers always have the words 'When', 'Whenever' or 'At' at the beginning of them.  What Palm does, however, is set up a replacement effect that will simply apply the next time the stated event happen and replaces that event. 
The way this works in combat with ties, to answer one of the OP's questions:
Both players are at 5 life.
Player A attacks with two 5/5 creatures.
Player B, with no creatures, doesn't block, but casts Deflecting Palm and chooses one of the 5/5s
Damage happens, as modified by Palm, causing a 5/5 to hit Player B, the damage from the other 5/5 being prevented, and Deflecting Palm to deal 5 damage to player A.  This ALL happens before State-based Actions are checked.
Both players are at 0 life, and both players lose due to state-based actions.

Gorzo

My apologies for the misinformation, thank you Rem for correcting me in detail!

I'm a bit out of practice I guess. Sorry guys!

Remillo

Quote from: Gorzo on October 09, 2014, 02:14:27 PM
My apologies for the misinformation, thank you Rem for correcting me in detail!

I'm a bit out of practice I guess. Sorry guys!

No problems, man!  It's a confusing little card, and is responsible for many rounds at the Prereleases going to game 4 or just drawing.  Amazing when used right, trolly when used correctly.

Nymuera

Will be fantastic when I get a chance to turn a 21 point Prosh attack back on my opponent in commander.

particle

Quote from: Noblellama on October 09, 2014, 03:55:08 PM
Quote from: Nymuera on October 09, 2014, 03:50:40 PM
Will be fantastic when I get a chance to turn a 21 point Prosh attack back on my opponent in commander.

I love you man

but that still wont be lethal commander damage since its deflecting palm doing the damage not prosh so itll just be normal damage.

Nymuera

Quote from: particle on October 09, 2014, 03:57:32 PM
Quote from: Noblellama on October 09, 2014, 03:55:08 PM
Quote from: Nymuera on October 09, 2014, 03:50:40 PM
Will be fantastic when I get a chance to turn a 21 point Prosh attack back on my opponent in commander.

I love you man

but that still wont be lethal commander damage since its deflecting palm doing the damage not prosh so itll just be normal damage.

True,  but would still be fun.

particle

Quote from: Nymuera on October 09, 2014, 04:06:17 PM
Quote from: particle on October 09, 2014, 03:57:32 PM
Quote from: Noblellama on October 09, 2014, 03:55:08 PM
Quote from: Nymuera on October 09, 2014, 03:50:40 PM
Will be fantastic when I get a chance to turn a 21 point Prosh attack back on my opponent in commander.

I love you man

but that still wont be lethal commander damage since its deflecting palm doing the damage not prosh so itll just be normal damage.

True,  but would still be fun.

i mean i guess not dying has value as well.

griffin131

"{Deflecting Palm} to prevent Prosh's damage."
"In response, {Skullcrack}, gg?"

Remillo

Quote from: Nymuera on October 09, 2014, 03:50:40 PM
Will be fantastic when I get a chance to turn a 21 point Prosh attack back on my opponent in commander.

The REAL trick is {Mirror Strike}

Daxos

{samite ministration} has enabled me to survive a fatal attack, then  untap and attack for fatal damage into a tapped out no defenders battlefield at least once. Same thing with that black instant with red kicker cost.

Nymuera

Quote from: Remillo on October 09, 2014, 05:28:25 PM
Quote from: Nymuera on October 09, 2014, 03:50:40 PM
Will be fantastic when I get a chance to turn a 21 point Prosh attack back on my opponent in commander.

The REAL trick is {Mirror Strike}

That is going in my sideboard!

cltrn81

Maybe this was covered but I want to play devils advocate and ask this in the simplest form.

I am at 1 life and so is my opponent.  My opponent attacks with (2) 1/1 vanilla creatures.  I cast {deflecting palm} on (1) of the vanilla creatures.

Who dies first?

particle

Quote from: cltrn81 on October 09, 2014, 09:12:32 PM
Maybe this was covered but I want to play devils advocate and ask this in the simplest form.

I am at 1 life and so is my opponent.  My opponent attacks with (2) 1/1 vanilla creatures.  I cast {deflecting palm} on (1) of the vanilla creatures.

Who dies first?

so as remillo stated before, {deflecting palm} will replace one of the creatures damage and both players will take lethal damage at the same time. both players would lose to statebased actions at the same time and if it was not a multiplayer game it would be a draw.