Thoughts on land hate in EDH?

[Kaalia with haste]

I know that EDH is supposed to be the fun format, I also know that some people like to go really hardcore with it. What are your thoughts?

[Spikepit]

I ran a red black land hate deck in EDH once. Any game after the first, you're always the first dead and even the first game wasn't that fun.

If it's an annoying-gimmick killer you're after, to put a Zur or Uril in its place for example, then smash it out. But I'd steer clear as they're a little OP and often times not much fun for either party.

[Remillo]

If used correctly, it can be a powerful tool that can end games really quickly.  The problem is, most people don't use it correctly and throw it around whenever they feel like it, making people hate it in general.  Things like Armageddon, I only cast if it will basically win me the game.  Say, my board state is far superior to anyone else's and I could win just given time and minimal disruption with what I already have.  It's fine there since it's helping me finish the game.  Things like lands that blow up other lands, or {Stone Rain}s are pretty much always fine, since they can single out problematic lands.  If someone drops a Hideaway land, it feels awesome to immediately {Strip Mine} it.  If I'm playing a Voltron build with red, being able to get rid of a {Maze of Ith} is usually necessary.

TL:DR: Use it correctly and people shouldn't hate you.  It's people that don't use it correctly or try to use it as a gimmick that perpetuate the hate.

[Dudecore]

Land destruction is a strategy. Different strategies should be encouraged.

[Spikepit]

These two lads here are very correct. If used precisely, it's a very effective strategy. Ive seen it used best in Jund, but rarely used effectively without getting annoying or wreckless (myself included, admittedly. I haven't attempted an LD build since my deck building skills matured past "INCLUDEALLTHECOOLCARDS!!!")

[Dudecore]

Every strategy needs a way to be punished. I don't see people getting heated about barfing creatures out, make a million mana or making their commander impossible to interact with and swinging for 1 million.

Players will find anything to complain about, they insufficiently build their decks to deal with land destruction, but they're the first to include graveyard hate in case they run into reanimator.

Believe me, as much as land destruction is annoying: the game is better with its inclusion. Once it is removed something else will be a problem. Don't take away answers, just build better decks. If you play with the same group then just add more manarocks or spells that grant indestructibility. Variance gives Commander its character.

[Dudecore]

I play Oloro stax deck that taxes everything anyone can do, and plays mass land destruction with no real wincon. My playgroup has adapted and I don't win nearly as much as I had when everyone was complaining.

I used to tech {Kozilek, Butcher of Truth} against the mill deck in the group. That was a meta move. A certain type of player do not believe in meta gaming, theyd rather complain and ban then find answers. As a group Casual players profess their deck building skills and creativity,  and laud netdeckers, then refuse to metagame - considering other players as cheating, paying to win or uncreative.

Deck building does not stop once everything is sleeved.

[MuggyWuggy]

I have an infect/sacrifice chain deck... People hate infect in commander, but I hate lockdown like vorinclex or Iona. They are still legal in EDH, so I can't say you can't run those.

If you have only one deck: make it versatile, you can win casually or aggressively.

My dragon deck is like that. If I see you thrown down a threat or combo piece that could let you win next turn, just hope my  {Scion of the Ur-Dragon} isn't out or he's swinging in for an infect combo or simply nicol bolas to discard your hand and destroy your combo you wanted to play.


Land destruction can be super dick, but so is infect, life gain, lock decks, sac decks etc

[Gocougs509]

^With infect in mind, I do think {triumph of the hordes} should be banned in edh. It's far too easy to win with that card, and it makes for the least exciting endings I've ever seen. I just stopped running it because it doesn't even feel like a win when I do win with it.

But anyways, yeah I've gotten a lot of hate from using MLD in my {maelstrom wanderer} deck, but cascading into a {jokulhaups} or an {apocalypse} is just SO awesome! I have a 7/5, you all have nothing Plus it's not even an instant win, because it takes a while to kill everyone on the table still and people can still draw into {path to exile}, and other cheap kills.

[MuggyWuggy]

OOO anyone got a triumph of the horde foil? Me wantz!!!

[rarehuntertay]

I run  {Jokulhaups},  {Decree of Annihilation} and  {Obliterate} in my  {Nekusar, the Mindrazer} deck

[gtfotis]

I played a {Jhoira of the Ghitu} deck.

😋

[LadyGrixis]

I personally don't like land destruction in decks, unless it's against a rampy Karametra EDH that just needs to have all of its Forests and Plains chopped down.

Lands are the most important card in Magic; and if you have no land, then you're a sitting duck. Not much fun for any deck that doesn't ramp.

[Gorzo]

^ this. I don't play land destruction because it's a form of denial, and playing denial makes the game very unfun for everyone.

There is occasionally a need for removing certain annoying lands, which is why I like cards like {Acidic Slime}, so the option is there when needed.

[MuggyWuggy]

But then we can argue against vorinclex and winter orb and stasis style decks. Sacrifice shutdown decks usually keep a board clean as a whistle