Wussification of America

[Piotr]

America's society has become an advocate of intolerance and ignorance, and turned away from rationale and justice. That's the best way I could sum it up in one sentence.

Can it be proven using logic, rather than statistics or other lies?

[MisterJH]

Not everything can be proven with statistics, but just by looking at the news you can tell 'intolerance wont be tolerated.'

Its a feel good message sure, but its also a huge lie. People have every right to hate and call names and whatnot, we should be teaching our future generations to be able to handle themselves and cope with conflict, rather than run to the government and expect compensation and consolation because not everybody thinks we're the greatest thing since fudge. Im not sure exactly what youre asking or suggesting Piotr but the only lies involved are the ones we tell our children, that everythings going to be okay and everyone will get along.

[MisterJH]

Crime is crime, calling some fat or gay or ugly is NOT A CRIME! Its an opinion, and ideally sure, nobody would do that. Im not arguing that it should be accepted, but it SHOULD be tolerated because words are just that. Everyone has an opinion and all people are entitled to hate. Racism and homophobia are a right in my opinion, as long as nobody physically affects me i couldcare less what is thought of me by people with so much hate in their hearts, and thats the message that should be espoused on TV, not 'bullies will be prosecuted for callin you names, because nobody deserves to get called names.' Wake up people, every has been called a name and everybody will be at some point, i just hate that so many dont understand that and think somehow we can remedy opinion by FORCING tolerance, and forcing children who can easily be influenced to behave like robots of society.

[MisterJH]

My kids are going to be taught and raised like children have been taught and raised for centuries, by their parents, and ill be damned if the government tries to mould my children.

[MisterJH]

America's society has become an advocate of intolerance and ignorance, and turned away from rationale and justice. That's the best way I could sum it up in one sentence.

I have to expand upon what youve said, as america is now a society of OVERTOLERANCE, so much so that ironically we no longer tolerate intolerant people. This goes too far in that religions(mostly European Christianity/Catholocism) are occassionally intolerable, because they do not fully tolerate everyone and everything. Its ridiculous now that people who differ from societal norms(not that its an issue) now get to criticize and criminalize those who happen to follow societal norms, when the original intolerants("normal" people in QUOTES MIND YOU) have no criminalized gays/emos/fats. Im kind of going off on tangents based on experiences that cross my mind as i type but the basic idea is the same.


Rant OVER

[Ieatfood7]

America's society has become an advocate of intolerance and ignorance, and turned away from rationale and justice. That's the best way I could sum it up in one sentence.

Can it be proven using logic, rather than statistics or other lies?

I don't agree with what he said, but statistics are not lies.  If you want to prove something with pure logic and not statistics/facts, then you are limited to "a priori" ideas, and modern and classical philosophy has shown the limits of such ideas, if they even exist at all.

Also, something like what he said is always partially true and partially false. There are many people who are ignorant/intolerant and who tacitly celebrate that as a virtue...they would say they are promoting "traditional values". There are also many people who are tolerant and intelligent and are pushing the country as hard as they can into the 21st century (opponents would say they are wusses and elitists). Neither side is completely right and both sides exist. Both sides have ALWAYS existed in America to some degree (and I expect in other countries too, though that is just a guess).

[rarehuntertay]

Crime is crime, calling some fat or gay or ugly is NOT A CRIME!

What is a crime, IMO, is the connotation that certain words carry now that they have gotten away from their true meaning, like gay, fag, retard.
Gay means happy. Fag is to tire out or to fray a rope. Retard means to make slow. Anyone else know of any words that now have a negative meaning in today's society??

http://m.dictionary.com/definition/fag
http://m.dictionary.com/definition/retard

[MarduArrow]

Fag is also a bundle of wood

[Ieatfood7]

You can get statistics to say whatever you want them to, so they could possibly be lies.

You are completely right. But then the interpretation of the statistics or the presentation of them is misleading. But statistics themselves (as long as the researchers arn't lying) are not inherently incorrect.

Examples. The research saying that pregnant women should avoid even moderate alcohol consumption in the third trimester that is most often quoted did not correct for the fact that a large percent of their drinking moms also did cocain while pregnant (you can force a pregnant test subject to get drunk, you have to take your drunks as you find them...and every study about excessive drinking during pregnancy has correctly shown it to be very bad, so don't think I am advocating drunken pregnancies, I am not).   So there the statistics were correct but the interpretation was a lie.

On the other hand, the only research showing a link between modern vaccines and autism was proven to have falsified its data, the researcher admitted he had lied about the data itself, and he has lost at least one of his licenses since then. There the data itself was a lie.

I guess I was over broad the first time I spoke. If the data isn't lies, then it is facts, though these facts may be of limited value depending on the quality and size of a study. The statistics are an analysis of that data, and while statistics can be used in a misleading fashion, statistics are not always misleading at all...categorically saying that statistics are lies is flippant and overly generalized at best, and is an ignorant lie at worst.

[FustyDavorite]

America's society has become an advocate of intolerance and ignorance, and turned away from rationale and justice. That's the best way I could sum it up in one sentence.

Can it be proven using logic, rather than statistics or other lies?

I don't agree with what he said, but statistics are not lies.  If you want to prove something with pure logic and not statistics/facts, then you are limited to "a priori" ideas, and modern and classical philosophy has shown the limits of such ideas, if they even exist at all.

Also, something like what he said is always partially true and partially false. There are many people who are ignorant/intolerant and who tacitly celebrate that as a virtue...they would say they are promoting "traditional values". There are also many people who are tolerant and intelligent and are pushing the country as hard as they can into the 21st century (opponents would say they are wusses and elitists). Neither side is completely right and both sides exist. Both sides have ALWAYS existed in America to some degree (and I expect in other countries too, though that is just a guess).

the only reason I would say what I said is to describe the degradation of America's society. Of course there always is a vast amount of people that are beneficial to society, and so my summation statement could probably use some rephrasing. Regardless, I stand behind what I've said. From my viewpoint, if pop culture (popular culture) is to stand for what the majority of Americans pursue in their lifetimes, then I see nothing worthwhile. The "American Dream"  is mow malformed. It now means,  "Become as successful as you can in life and get ahead by any means necessary."

This of course is excluding those individuals who have separated themselves from this way of life.

[FustyDavorite]

As for the statistics argument, I believe statistics to be just as valuable a source of information and evidence as any other. And just as any other source, it's difficult to find solid truth and reasoning in it.

[MisterJH]

This is not a post about statistics

[Silent1236]

This is not a post about statistics

Haha that's how public forums work!  ".love. your topic, we're talking about this now!"

[FustyDavorite]

Indeed .love. this topic.  Were talkig about statistics now. 
I can take any set of data, warp the significance level, and voila!  I can get it to say the exact opposite of what it should be saying.  Take a statistics class.  It really opens your eyes.  Now, whenever I hear someone say a statistic, I ignore them and sometimes ask for the actual data.

I've taken two statistics classes. And yes you can mess with sample size, significance level, confidence level, and everything else to skew your results however you want but in the same way you can screw with every other source of relevant information and evidence. It just requires effort and a little to get correct information, just like with everything else

[Ieatfood7]

Lol. True. Back to the topic though.

See my above responce about how America is not as ignorant/backwards not as wussy as it is made out to be, and its a little of both.

I think most of the things you are complaining about are merely overreaction a to problems. I'm sure you agree that verbal/mental/emotional abuse is a thing that exists and I'm sure you agree that it should be outlawed. I'm sure we can all agree that there is a difference between abuse people should be protected from and merely "insensitive" talk that people should be free to say wherever however they want.  It's just a question of where to draw the line. American has set the line too short in some places and too far in some.