Merike and Gods.

Started by griffin131, February 25, 2014, 08:07:54 AM

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griffin131

 {Merieke Ri Berit} taps and steals an active  {Karametra, God of Harvests}. 
Merieke's player does not have enough devotion to activate Kara as a creature.

Does Kara stay with Merike's player?

We ruled that because Merike's ability doesn't continually target, Kara stayed stolen and Merike could untap without losing Kara.

MuggyWuggy

Quote from: griffin131 on February 25, 2014, 08:07:54 AM
{Merieke Ri Berit} taps and steals an active  {Karametra, God of Harvests}. 
Merieke's player does not have enough devotion to activate Kara as a creature.

Does Kara stay with Merike's player?

We ruled that because Merike's ability doesn't continually target, Kara stayed stolen and Merike could untap without losing Kara.

This is an interesting question:

Now according to merikes rulings 1 & 3: if she leaves battlefield or you lose control of her: it sends back the stolen creature to its original owner before the destroy ability triggers

According to her 2nd ruling:if you untap her, it triggers only the destroy ability, and since karametra is indestructible, she would not be destroyed. You do not lose control of the creature.

So you would get to keep her.

Presentjackson

Would you still be able to steal the creature if it isnt yet a creature?

Double-O-Scotch

You can't gain control of target creature if the target is not a creature. Illegal target.

rarehuntertay

I think we are getting away from the original question.

Pleeb

I think he's referring to the god no longer being a creature when she comes to your side because you don't have the devotion. I think I know what will happen, but I'm not sure, so keeping my mouth shut :)

Tonygrabowski4

The god's devotion ability refers to the controller of the god.  Since you now control her, if your devotion isn't high enough, she would turn off.

Pleeb

I get that part, what I'm not sure of is when the creature part is turned off, does merike lose control of the god and it go back before you can untap her and trigger the destroy effect?  I think yes, but again, I'm not sure.

MuggyWuggy

No in her rulings it states:

If merike is untapped, destroy the creature, but nothing says about losing control of it.

If she leaves the battlefield/you lose control of her: they get their stolen creature back

Leaving the battlefield and untapping are very different

MuggyWuggy

It may have to be a new ruling with her, but if you control it and just don't have the devotion, you just don't have the devotion

Nothing says in her rulings or her rules:
If a creature is no longer a creature return it to its owner

It does say however: if you lose control of merike, you return it back to its owner.


Pleeb

Ok. Tap merike, gain control of a god
God comes over to your side of the table
God checks for devotion and you don't have enough
God loses status as a creature.

All this happens before anyone receives priority, so it can't be responded to

The god is now an illegal target for merike. What happens?  Do you retain control of the god even though it is no longer a creature?  Do you lose control of the god?  If you lose control, does it trigger any of merik's destroy triggers?  Etc etc.

MuggyWuggy

Need some advance level judge confirmation on this

MuggyWuggy

This will probably be a new ruling as devotion into creature is a fairly new mechanic

griffin131

Quote from: Double-O-Scotch on February 26, 2014, 10:58:59 AM
You can't gain control of target creature if the target is not a creature. Illegal target.
God was a creature when stolen - hence using the word "active" in the OP.

Giggle the Draco Genius

I think we need to simplify this. Do you lose control of a god right away if you cast {traitorous instinct} on it?