Stuffy doll v infect

[Spencer Addington]

So let's say I attack with a {glistening elf} and beef it up with a {titanic growth} and my opponent blocks with a {stuffy doll}. What would happen?

[Skyshadow731]

Stuffy doll would die. Due to infect giving -1/-1 counters in stead of normal damage he wouldn't deal damage to you but the -1/-1 will kill stuffy because indestructible applies to normal damage.

[Spencer Addington]

Stuffy doll would die. Due to infect giving -1/-1 counters in stead of normal damage he wouldn't deal damage to you but the -1/-1 will kill stuffy because indestructible applies to normal damage.

I really appreciate the fast answer. I'm really going to need an official ruling if one exists because my friend runs a {stuffy doll} {pariah} infinite combo deck.

[Skyshadow731]

Comprehensive Rules:

"Indestructible" is not a keyword ability. It's just a word with a specific English meaning that's used as part of a permanent's abilities, like "unblockable." When an effect states that "[this permanent] is indestructible," it's stating a quality about that permanent, not giving it an ability. The official rules for indestructible are as follows:

700.4. If a permanent is indestructible, rules and effects can't destroy it. (See rule 701.6, "Destroy.") Such permanents are not destroyed by lethal damage, and they ignore the lethal-damage state-based action (see rule 704.5g). Rules or effects may cause an indestructible permanent to be sacrificed, put into a graveyard, or exiled.

700.4a Although the text "[This permanent] is indestructible" is an ability, actually being indestructible is neither an ability nor a characteristic. It's just something that's true about a permanent.


If an indestructible creature has 0 toughness, it will be put into its owner's graveyard. Being indestructible can't prevent this.
Damage accumulates on indestructible creatures, and that damage is removed during the cleanup step.
Lethal damage is defined as an amount of damage greater than or equal to a creature's toughness. Even though an indestructible creature isn't destroyed by lethal damage, that definition is still used for things like assigning trample damage.
If a creature with lethal damage on it stops being indestructible, it's destroyed the next time state-based effects are checked.
Being indestructible stops only effects that would destroy the permanent, including destruction due to lethal damage and destruction that doesn't allow regeneration. An indestructible permanent can be removed from the game, returned to a player's hand, put into a graveyard, or sacrificed.
You can use a regeneration effect on an indestructible permanent, but since that permanent can't be destroyed, the effect will never apply.

[Mattao19]

Stuffy doll would die. Due to infect giving -1/-1 counters in stead of normal damage he wouldn't deal damage to you but the -1/-1 will kill stuffy because indestructible applies to normal damage.

I really appreciate the fast answer. I'm really going to need an official ruling if one exists because my friend runs a {stuffy doll} {pariah} infinite combo deck.

Does he really need an official ruling? Like infect deals in -1/-1 counters indestructible means destroy effects don't destroy it whereas -1/-1 counters do kill it.

This is why {Drown in Filth} can kill a God like Thassa

[Spencer Addington]

Stuffy doll would die. Due to infect giving -1/-1 counters in stead of normal damage he wouldn't deal damage to you but the -1/-1 will kill stuffy because indestructible applies to normal damage.

I really appreciate the fast answer. I'm really going to need an official ruling if one exists because my friend runs a {stuffy doll} {pariah} infinite combo deck.

Does he really need an official ruling? Like infect deals in -1/-1 counters indestructible means destroy effects don't destroy it whereas -1/-1 counters do kill it.

This is why {Drown in Filth} can kill a God like Thassa

Oh yes.

[Skyshadow731]

The stuffy doll would die to its toughness being less than 0.  However, it still deals however much damage to the chosen player.  The infect creature deals damage in the form of infect.  It's still damage, so stuffs trigger would trigger.

Ohh ok well I thought the damage wouldn't be directed. But I was positive about stuffy doll dying cause I have hadn't ruled on me in a edh tournament my lgs had hosted.

[Mattao19]

yep it's surprisingly very good late game it kills lots and lots of things!

Also depending on my hands I {Drown in Filth} my own dorks to get my GY filled for a T3 {Nemisis of Mortals}!! It's super di dooper fun to play!! ALL HAIL CONLEY!!

[Kaleo42]

Stuffy doll does deal damage to the player. Infect deals damage in the form of -1/-1 counters. You do gain life if an infect creature has lifelink, this would not be possible if the damage was not actually dealt. So since that confirms damage is dealt then the necessary condition for stuffy's trigger has been met.