Savage force

[Mlerner12]

{Force of Savagery} has 0 toughness, right? So, the ruling says "Triggered abilities won't save it." And since {Master Biomancer} and things like that are triggered, won't it die as a state-based action no matter what? Indestructible is only lethal damage/destroy and doesn't stop this guy.

[DylanW18]

5/1/2007   

Yes, Force of Savagery has 0 toughness. It will be put into its owner's graveyard as a state-based action immediately upon entering the battlefield unless an effect puts it onto the battlefield with a counter on it (such as {Chorus of the Conclave} would) or a static ability boosts its toughness (such as {Glorious Anthem} would). A triggered or activated ability that boosts toughness won't have its effect fast enough to save it.

[Mlerner12]

A triggered or activated ability that boosts toughness won't have its effect fast enough to save it.

This was what confused me, since the Conclave things are ETB trigger abilities :/

[DylanW18]

The difference is in the wording.

"~~~" enters the battlefield with an additional +1/+1 counter.

And

Whenever "~~~" enters the battlefield, put a +1/+1 counter on it.

I believe the first one happens as it is being cast, not after it resolves

[Gorzo]

A triggered or activated ability that boosts toughness won't have its effect fast enough to save it.

This was what confused me, since the Conclave things are ETB trigger abilities :/

Chorus of the Conclave is a cast trigger, not an ETB trigger. It will enter the battlefield with the +1 counters already on it (the card even specifies so). That's the difference. The key words are "when you cast" and "enters with."

Edit: Dylan beat me to it

[Kaleo42]

It happens as it resolves but before it is put onto the battlefield.

[Mlerner12]

Alright thanks people!

[DylanW18]

Woo! I was just guessing! Lol thanks for confirmation Gorzo :p

[Pleeb]

I'm confused. Isn't  {master biomancer} a static ability?

[Wally]

Yes. Master biomancer would also save it.