Infinite elf combo?

Started by Greenfacetusk, August 17, 2013, 04:15:59 AM

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Malachiracer


MementoMori

Quote from: Bman0121 on August 25, 2013, 03:14:22 PM
This doesnt work there is a difference between +1/+1 counters and +1/+1 from {Coat of arms} once you have removed the 2 -1/-1 counters from the druid and put the 2 elf tokens on the battle field he is only a 3/5 elf that can tap for green
You're putting counters on, not removing them.

Bman0121

Quote from: MementoMori on August 26, 2013, 12:14:31 AM
Quote from: Bman0121 on August 25, 2013, 03:14:22 PM
This doesnt work there is a difference between +1/+1 counters and +1/+1 from {Coat of arms} once you have removed the 2 -1/-1 counters from the druid and put the 2 elf tokens on the battle field he is only a 3/5 elf that can tap for green
You're putting counters on, not removing them.
I see now my bad had a brain fart

Bvader

Quote from: MementoMori on August 17, 2013, 06:12:50 AM
Enchant Druid with Presence. Tap it for an Elf, giving it +1/+1 from {Coat of Arms}. Then you can put a -1/-1 counter on the Druid to repeat the process. Because the counters will never outpace the buffs from the Coat, you can do this forever, getting infinite elves with infinite power and toughness.

Bvader

Now if you do that with either parallel lives or/and doubling season you get even more tokens

MementoMori

Quote from: Noblellama on September 06, 2013, 12:13:24 AM
So I read in another post that adding a +1/+1 counter counteracts a -1/-1 counter, I don't believe that is true.
It is.

Quote121.3.: If a permanent has both a +1/+1 counter and a -1/-1 counter on it, N +1/+1 and N -1/-1 counters are removed from it as a state-based action, where N is the smaller of the number of +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters on it.
However, what you said next is close to what's actually happening:
QuoteI think the -1/-1 is still there just being overridden by the +1/+1 counter. Anyway to get some clarification?
It's actually the reverse: the boost from Coat is being canceled by the -1/-1 counters. Coat of Arms doesn't add counters, it gives a power and toughness boost (รก la {Giant Growth}). The -1/-1 counters added by the elf's ability are still there. That means if Coat of Arms goes away, the elf will die due to the staggering number of -1/-1 counters on it.

Wally

Quote from: Bvader on September 05, 2013, 11:02:29 PM
Now if you do that with either parallel lives or/and doubling season you get even more tokens

An infinite amount is an infinite amount. You can't make a more infinite amount. :/

Deathseide

Make it more fun by running {doubling season} or it's more recent remake

Anoobass

Quote from: Wally on September 06, 2013, 08:12:34 PM
Quote from: Bvader on September 05, 2013, 11:02:29 PM
Now if you do that with either parallel lives or/and doubling season you get even more tokens

An infinite amount is an infinite amount. You can't make a more infinite amount. :/

Though this is true, wouldn't the + boost go up twice as fast as the - and then make the mana elf infinite/infinite?

Wally

Quote from: Anoobass on September 09, 2013, 10:04:29 PM
Quote from: Wally on September 06, 2013, 08:12:34 PM
Quote from: Bvader on September 05, 2013, 11:02:29 PM
Now if you do that with either parallel lives or/and doubling season you get even more tokens

An infinite amount is an infinite amount. You can't make a more infinite amount. :/

Though this is true, wouldn't the + boost go up twice as fast as the - and then make the mana elf infinite/infinite?

Yes, that would be the case as long as you didn't also double the amount of -1 counters you were adding :)
However, considering the rest of the elves are infinite/infinite it probably wouldn't matter if one more was too.

Wackaman9001

Quote from: Wally on September 10, 2013, 12:53:07 AM
Quote from: Anoobass on September 09, 2013, 10:04:29 PM
Quote from: Wally on September 06, 2013, 08:12:34 PM
Quote from: Bvader on September 05, 2013, 11:02:29 PM
Now if you do that with either parallel lives or/and doubling season you get even more tokens

An infinite amount is an infinite amount. You can't make a more infinite amount. :/

Though this is true, wouldn't the + boost go up twice as fast as the - and then make the mana elf infinite/infinite?

Yes, that would be the case as long as you didn't also double the amount of -1 counters you were adding :)
However, considering the rest of the elves are infinite/infinite it probably wouldn't matter if one more was too.
Don't worry about doubled counters, the neg is a cost, not an effect, {doubling season} wouldn't affect it, the mana elf can go infinite, giving infinite green mana too!