Is non truth a lie?

[Piotr]

I have a slight problem with that. There's a big difference between a lie and an ignorant falsehood or simply being wrong.

Not for the purpose of testing if crime was committed.  Testing it is the first step in the trial process. You can be guilty of telling falsehood which hurts someone, without knowing it. The law protects the victim. The second step is the punishment, the logical punishment for telling falsehood which hurts someone, without knowing it, is nil. I suggest you all cool down a bit.

[Piotr]

I do not agree with Piotr's conclusion based on the premise. I do not see compelling evidence of how free speech is harming another individual because you "would not want that to be done to you". Anything can be said to harm you at that point, anything that you don't agree with of course.

If you were honest with that statement, then all theists should be banned from this forum as well. Seeing as you won't do that (being you are one) - iMtG Law is a correction of great ideas that are enforced as you see fit. Not the intended purpose of the golden rule.

Free speech ends where my ear starts, you cannot force me to listen. You cannot invade my property and tell me things I don't want to hear. This is basic stuff, I'm a bit surprised that anarchist is unaware of it.

All law is a collection of great ideas that are enforced as enforcers see fit. There is no other law but the law of the fist, because law without force behind it is just an unrealised idea, nothing really. So at the end of the day, law is just a tool. Our law, I believe, is a good tool for good people.

[Dudecore]

We're not speaking of anarchy. We're speaking of aggression. You've accepted the aggression is a necessary tool to get what you want, I reject that claim. It is irrelevant if anarchy will ever work, it's the principle of non-aggression. IMtG Law is coercive, behind every idea is a loaded weapon. You've got the tools to handle things non-aggressively (block button, simply ignoring the individual) while he peacefully continues. Instead you invoke your property rights for ideas, and throw around vacuous platitudes like "free speech ends where my ear begins".

You've banned someone because you do not want them to turn people into socialists ("Do not break law in prevention of lawbreaking."). You're trying to explain why you banned someone in the context of iMtG law - instead of saying what I believe to be the truth "I just wanted to"

[Piotr]

The aggressor invaded my property against my will. I forced him to leave. iMtG law is a practical tool which can be used by property owners to keep folks they are not interested to have as guests, at bay. It can also be used to stop any lie, defined as false statement which hurts others (in practice a false statement), when both parties are on equal ground. So if you are hurt by people posting porkies in Rules, we can ban them.

[EvACiDe]

the app I understand is your property. But the online forum, wouldn't that fall under public domain? How was the aggressor invading your property in that case?

[Piotr]

the app I understand is your property. But the online forum, wouldn't that fall under public domain? How was the aggressor invading your property in that case?

You have much to learn, young padawan. The app you are using under Apple EULA, and it gives you much property rights to it, I hope.

Public domain is a completely different concept: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_domain

I own this server, on which this forum runs, which I created and own as an administrator, and can uncreate it at my whim. You're a guest here, and you signed my law upon entering, you have no property rights to this place. I grant limited property rights to Patrons, they can moderate threads they started so they can run their own sub-forums with sub-law which must be compatible with iMtG Law. You are free to leave at your whim

[Gorzo]

I'm 100% with DC on this one. How exactly are you being forced to listen? There's a hide button. There are "don't read this thread because it's full of stupid nonsense that I don't like" or "don't read it and scroll by this post" options. Your neck pivots approximately 180 degrees - you can just look away from the evil socialist text.

Sure, ultimately it's your app and you can ask them to leave. We understand that. But please don't lie to us, strong-arm us, or break your own rules in the process. I don't think that's unreasonable of the community to ask. Isn't treating us as you would wish to be treated one of your key beliefs?

[Piotr]

Oh for God's sake, if you really think I'll be hosting socialist lies at my expense, you're mad bro, I'll shut this place down first.

[Langku]

Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you. Nietzsche

I have a lot of regard for you Piotr and as I've said before I don't dispute any of your rights as forum owner and I think you have some valid views on socialism. But for your sake I urge you, while struggling against those evils, not to employ even a hint of the intolerant socialist ethics that harmed you and many others.

Make an enemy by silencing someone. Fight an enemy by standing up to someone. Destroy an enemy by bringing them to your way of thinking.

And, yeah, as a last resort close the forum down 😉

[Piotr]

I know. I created the law as much to contain my own evil as to stop the others.

Gratz on 101! 

[Langku]

That's a good stance to have.

[Apathy Reactor]

Yes, partial truth is a lie. :|

[DirtyMustachio]

I kinda got irritated reading this. And while socially maybe your all very very right in what your saying to piotr. And perhaps all things being equal banning someone for speaking on personal beliefs is wrong.

Or maybe, enjoying the forum and app that has made a multitude of things easier and accessible to a large ammount of people can't just be good enough no.

So this is an magic app perhaps piotr decides to do away with social aspects that aren't relevent to mtg. People take things for granted and take up the fight against people whose mind is already decided.

Just as I can hide, block, or ignore someone saying things I don't like. I can also use some gosh dern judgment and quite obviously choose to not flame certain subjects that rile people up. No that would be to simple, peoples nature on the internet is to either white knight their beliefs to others or troll the knights for entertainment.

Personally i'd rather not bite the hand that feeds, because at the end of the day do you feel bigger because you stood up to piotr for banning someone. Probrably getting banned in the process. Was it worth it? Who really cares 10 years from now. How bout go do something with yourself that adds to peoples lives. I am very benefitted by this app therefore it has added value to my life. Like most people with facebook.

A wise man once told me you aren't merely paid what your worth, because no man paid by another man is ever paid his worth, because how can you measure worth? A mans worth is based on how much value he adds to others lives.

Gee whats that say about the guy who made google?
And for me thats why I appreciate piotr and I've never seen him been so personally vocal until being attacked on like every other thread like every other day.  Makes me sad =(

[Piotr]

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with people talking about .politics. and socialism, I love these discussions. I just find it very unacceptable when people lie in said discussions, and I have the knowledge and skill to identify and prove these lies. It may look like I'm banning people for being socialists*, but that never happened and I hope never will, I ban for spreading lies.

* not all socialists are thieves, and being naive is not a crime. Spreading lies after being warned is.

[Dudecore]

Personally i'd rather not bite the hand that feeds, because at the end of the day do you feel bigger because you stood up to piotr for banning someone. Probrably getting banned in the process. Was it worth it? Who really cares 10 years from now. How bout go do something with yourself that adds to peoples lives. I am very benefitted by this app therefore it has added value to my life. Like most people with facebook.

This is wrong for soooo many reasons.