Touchy Subject #7: Obama NSFW

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

You can keep your income tax. Just don't use the roads the government builds, don't use the United States Postal Service, don't go to parks the government provides and don't breathe the air or drink the water that government regulation keeps clean. Also if you lose your job, don't apply for welfare, unemployment or any other service the government provides. If a crime is committed, you get hurt or a fire breaks out, oh well, don't call 911 for the police, the fire department or an ambulance. If you get hurt, you can go to a hospital, but don't apply for disability. Work for a dollar an hour, the government can't tell you that you need to receive a realistic salary. Let monopolies take over and enslave us with ridiculous prices that would force us to bend to every corporation's will. But yeah, you're right, screw the government, those thieves!

[Dudecore]

You can keep your income tax. Just don't use the roads the government builds, don't use the United States Postal Service, don't go to parks the government provides and don't breathe the air or drink the water that government regulation keeps clean. Also if you lose your job, don't apply for welfare, unemployment or any other service the government provides. If a crime is committed, you get hurt or a fire breaks out, oh well, don't call 911 for the police, the fire department or an ambulance. If you get hurt, you can go to a hospital, but don't apply for disability. Work for a dollar an hour, the government can't tell you that you need to receive a realistic salary. Let monopolies take over and enslave us with ridiculous prices that would force us to bend to every corporation's will. But yeah, you're right, screw the government those thieves!

If private businesses were allowed to assume those roles, then there would be no problem. Also, have you seen how much money those things all cost? They're run like crap. Also, I'd be willing to pay for those services - you don't have to steal my money to do it.

I don't want to pay for bombs, militarized police, the salaries of government officials, faith based initiatives, covert ops, the CIA, Corporate subsidies, the printing of phoney money, and innumerable other things.

I don't know why you think people wouldn't willingly pay for those services, and instead have the money taken from us at gunpoint and spent on garbage.

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

If you don't like it...use your voting rights to change it but complaining about taxes doesn't help. Also do you really think corporations would build roads and protect the environment for free...nice joke.

[Birdbrain]

I think Obama should cut the funding going to that factory that keeps producing so many unneeded tanks...and simply just puts them in the desert because we have no use for them.

Seriously, that money could be used for better things. That's actualy a rather large chunk of the defense budget being used for that. I say we can cut the defense budget, stop outsourcing jobs, and make things better for small businesses damnit!

[Birdbrain]

May I point out we have much more efficient technologies now adays than tanks

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

Yeah, but when we use them (drones) everyone freaks out.

[Dudecore]

If you don't like it...use your voting rights to change it but complaining about taxes doesn't help. Also do you really think corporations would build roads and protect the environment for free...nice joke.

The government doesn't do it for free either...they take our tax money for it. They don't have their own. You've also have no voting power...that is why democracy is a farse.

Corporations would build roads, because they'd presumably like to use them. Until teleportation removes the needs of shipping goods and services. There will be people willing to pay for these things. The best part is, if they're entirely ineffective at what they do (like the government), you can get a new company that will do the right thing.

[Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth]

If you don't like it...use your voting rights to change it but complaining about taxes doesn't help. Also do you really think corporations would build roads and protect the environment for free...nice joke.

The government doesn't do it for free either...they take our tax money for it. They don't have their own. You've also have no voting power...that is why democracy is a farse.

Corporations would build roads, because they'd presumably like to use them. Until teleportation removes the needs of shipping goods and services. There will be people willing to pay for these things. The best part is, if they're entirely ineffective at what they do (like the government), you can get a new company that will do the right thing.

Corporations would charge us to use the roads so what's the difference between that and the government taking taxes to provide the same service. Also because the sole purpose of a business is to make money, it would end up costing us more because we would have to pay for the service and the business's profit. I noticed you skipped over the environmental protection part, that was wise because we all know that businesses don't care about pollution, as long as they make money. We have seen it time and time again with companies spilling oil, spending billions to suppress green energy research and pouring tons of toxic chemicals into the air we breathe. The government sucks but it is better than businesses running things. To quote Thomas Paine "Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil."

**************Should we move this discussion to a new thread, it really has gotten off the topic of Obama.*************

[Dudecore]

Nothing is worse then the government that is supposed to be doing something, giving voice and ability to them to pollute more. The government has only "fined" corporations for polluting, take the money and pocket it. Instead of making any business accountable to the people, we make them accountable to no one. Government payoffs and omitting information.

In what ways does the government make them stop polluting, besides instituting vague caps and technological requirements occasionally? They're picking winners and losers. They've no right to do it.

And I don't see what's in it for businesses pricing people out of using their roads. What purpose would it serve to have your roads so expensive that no one would use them? And yes, yes we would "pay" to use the roads - like we already do the government - but without the other garbage that comes along with paying income tax.

[ihasfrozen]

Nothing is worse then the government that is supposed to be doing something, giving voice and ability to them to pollute more. The government has only "fined" corporations for polluting, take the money and pocket it. Instead of making any business accountable to the people, we make them accountable to no one. Government payoffs and omitting information.

In what ways does the government make them stop polluting, besides instituting vague caps and technological requirements occasionally? They're picking winners and losers. They've no right to do it.

And I don't see what's in it for businesses pricing people out of using their roads. What purpose would it serve to have your roads so expensive that no one would use them? And yes, yes we would "pay" to use the roads - like we already do the government - but without the other garbage that comes along with paying income tax.

Federal emissions standards forces car manufacturers and power plants to reduce pollution.

What business would own what road? You would have to pay for each different road, or face a monopolistic road company that could charge whatever it wants by being the only game in town.

[ihasfrozen]

They would make the road if they wanted to develop someone.  The company's anything to develop would pay another company to make the road, then it would be free for public use.  I there's no road, they can't build, so there's their incentive to give us a free road.

Why would that make it free for public use? The company that builds the road has no reason to not charge for the road, they have to maintain it don't they? And once the roads are built, how does the road-making company make money? What happens if someone can't afford to pay to use a road?

I don't really understand the faith people put in any for-profit companies to not shaft the consumer if it weren't for government consumer-protection regulations.

I suppose we should do away with public universities and just have people go to for-profit universities? Screw the military, we can just use private contractors: same thing, right?

[Piotr]

face a monopolistic road company that could charge whatever it wants by being the only game in town.

Are you too blind to see that this is exactly what you have now?

[Dudecore]

Why would that make it free for public use? The company that builds the road has no reason to not charge for the road, they have to maintain it don't they? And once the roads are built, how does the road-making company make money? What happens if someone can't afford to pay to use a road?

What is in it for them to prevent people from using the roads? Besides they're "evil corporations" meant to destroy the very fabric of humanity. If they went through the expense of building a road, why wouldn't they want people to use them? Or even for free for that matter. They've got to use the roads, buy the land, build the thing.

The government does not do this for free. They take the land from people, and sell it to developers (private companies) to build on then sell to folks. "Why don't they just make the houses so expensive no one can buy them?" Because that isn't how markets work.

I don't really understand the faith people put in any for-profit companies to not shaft the consumer if it weren't for government consumer-protection regulations.

Most of the time the consumer-protection regulations we have in place give a pass to things that normally would not happen. The SEC declaring that after their research - Bernie Madoff is a fine person to invest with (we see how that turned out). That guaranteeing subprime mortgages is a wonderful idea. That allowing a certain tolerance of lead filled items from china is fine. These oversight committees have given voice to many horrible things, like Monsanto and other garbage. The companies recourse? Pay a fine, get back to work.

Again, I don't see what's in it for any corporation to give "the shaft" to it's consumers. They need to make money, if people don't like the way they do business - they're not obligated to purchase things from them. Oversight committees can exist privately, and can still be 1000 billion times more effective then the FDA.

I suppose we should do away with public universities and just have people go to for-profit universities? Screw the military, we can just use private contractors: same thing, right?

Correct on both counts. You're essentially stealing money from people, money they worked for and did not willingly give anyone, and then using it to have schools for YOUR children. I don't have kids. I believe in education, most certainly. Education is the key to our future success. I don't think public schools are even close to accomplishing that goal.

Everyone debates about private schools, but what is wrong with having them? It's this ill founded belief that the tuition would be so high that no one could afford to go there. But how does that benefit someone who builds a school, and has a product to sell? It stands contrary to EVERYTHING we know about economics.

It makes no sense for a business to start a monopoly, because someone will always be willing to come along and get a piece of the action. Alternatives will always exist. There is no point in being a tyrannical corporation because you need to make profit - you need people to purchase your product in order to profit.

If you believe that the government is the one that "makes things safe" and other non-sense - you're wrong. They take their pound of flesh and move on. Oversight committees, insurance companies and community action groups can completely replace the "safety net" the government has some believing exists.

[ihasfrozen]

face a monopolistic road company that could charge whatever it wants by being the only game in town.

Are you too blind to see that this is exactly what you have now?

There is not a 'road tax' except for turnpikes, so the government is a monopoly that charges nothing to use roads?

You can't claim that income taxes are 'road taxes' on everyone, since not everyone has to pay them. The income tax is a perfectly legal method of collecting revenue to keep our country great and help make it even better.

[Piotr]

You can't claim that income taxes are 'road taxes' on everyone, since not everyone has to pay them. The income tax is a perfectly legal method of collecting revenue to keep our country great and help make it even better.

Precisely! They are not road taxes, but none of the other taxes are. Not even so called road tax and fuel daylight robbery. All taxes go to a common pool and get redistributed. Redistribution of wealth under force is called stealing, or daylight bloody robbery if you will