Angel of Serenity, the stack

[Pleeb]

Follow up question: I want to make sure I'm following the stack correctly.
{Angel of Serenity} ETB and puts "exile 3 target permanents" on the stack. {Ultimate Price} is cast targeting the angel. Ultimate price resolves killing the angel and the angels LTB affect triggers putting "return cards exiled by angel" on the stack. Return resolves with no legal targets. Three target permanents are then exiled and never get sent to their controllers hand.

[Keyeto]

Follow up question: I want to make sure I'm following the stack correctly.
{Angel of Serenity} ETB and puts "exile 3 target permanents" on the stack. {Ultimate Price} is cast targeting the angel. Ultimate price resolves killing the angel and the angels LTB affect triggers putting "return cards exiled by angel" on the stack. Return resolves with no legal targets. Three target permanents are then exiled and never get sent to their controllers hand.

Yep! This is what I had mentioned earlier. It's a pretty nasty combo. Assuming you're facing the angel, you'll want to wait until her ETB trigger resolves before killing her.

[Agarrita80]

I encountered this on MTGO. What happens is the player casting angel gets to choose the 3 creatures to be exiled so they are in limbo but the ETB hasn't resolved yet so you cast ultimate price and kill the angel. By doing this that occurs first so the 3 creatures chosen to be exiled stay exiled since they never officially were put under the angel. Does that make sense?

[Paraluke]

Yea I believe this was discussed before and those cards will be exiled "forever".

It is like the angel is the key and when the angel is dead, the key is gone and is unable to "unlock" those exiled back to play. Hehe a good way to break the restoration angel trick.

[Mentonin]

It would happen like this:
1- angel is cast
2- angel resolves
3- ETB effect is put on the stack, with targets already chosen
4- {ultimate price} or any other instant speed destroy effect is cast/put on stack
5- destroy resolves
6- LTB effect is put on stack
7- LTB resolves. No cards were exiled, so no cards go to hand
8- ETB resolves on the targets already specified on step 3. Since the ability includes "you may", the Angel owner chooses wether he wants to exile them or bot (this decision is the same for all targets, he can't choose to cancel it on one target and keep it on another)

[Dudecore]

Works in MTGO all of the time. As explained above. Good work everyone.

[Falcon182]

It would happen like this:
1- angel is cast
2- angel resolves
3- ETB effect is put on the stack, with targets already chosen
4- {ultimate price} or any other instant speed destroy effect is cast/put on stack
5- destroy resolves
6- LTB effect is put on stack
7- LTB resolves. No cards were exiled, so no cards go to hand
8- ETB resolves on the targets already specified on step 3. Since the ability includes "you may", the Angel owner chooses wether he wants to exile them or bot (this decision is the same for all targets, he can't choose to cancel it on one target and keep it on another)

For step 8, once the targets are chosen for the trigger, it's also been declared that the targets will be exiled hasn't it? I don't see how you can later change whether they get exiled or not because the effect is already on the stack.

[Agarrita80]

I agree with falcon

[Keyeto]

Mentonin is correct. It's actually in the rules for the card on Gatherer:

1/24/2013 You choose the targets as part of putting the enters-the-battlefield trigger on the stack. Because that ability includes "you may," you choose whether to exile the targets when the ability resolves.

[Agarrita80]

It doesn't give you that option on MTGO to not exile them

[Mentonin]

That is because MTGO is a set of predefined programs which dictate the rules, and not always is a perfect reflection of rules nuances.

[Agarrita80]

So every time that happens in a match on MTGO you can file for reimbursement haha

[Paraluke]

So for such cases of "may", when the angel is cast the caster has to declare the 3 targets, but only upon resolution decides whether to exile them, since it is a "may"?

[Kaleo42]

Ok everyone good job clearing up her ability and interacting with a kill spell. I need to jump in on an important point that was not brought up though: priority.

Assuming it is your opponent's turn (since serenity does not have flash) they retain priority when the stack is empty, the same is true for you on your turns. This means when a creature enters the battlefield without triggering anything such as an ETB or {ivy lane denizen} then you cant actually cast your kill spell until your opponent casts, activates, or triggers something and/or changes phases. So when the angel enters before the ETB is actually placed on the stack there is a state base check but you can not kill the angel at this time. State base finds that an ETB is waiting and places that on the stack at which point if the active player (your opponent in this case) has nothing to add before that resolves then you can responds by killing it.

Understanding priority should be learned when you learn the stack, but many players overlook this important function of magic that clears up a lot of misunderstandings.