Goodbye Bomber Suspect

[Birdbrain]

Night wolf, did you read langku's suggestion of what to do with the murder? Here just a sec ill quote it...

Piotr mentioned reconciliation. For me that is the most important facet of justice. Too often we confuse justice with pure retribution but the math doesn't work when the death sentence is enacted. The people who suffered were not repaid. Yes, Dzhokha's life should be forfeit, but in lifelong servitude to the people of Boston. He should work in isolation cleaning, weeding, whatever labor is needed. When he works to the satisfaction of his supervisors, he eats. If he tries to leave confinement he dies. His life is in his hands, to live and serve or to withdraw and die. A lifetime of hard work may not be worth 3 people's lives but it is worth more than an easy death.

[FlickerYourOwnIdentity]

I want to ask a different question, how many of you have seen Argo.  If not I encourage you to watch it, it is an amazing film.

SPOILER FOR ARGO IN THE REST OF THIS REPLY, IF YOU WANNA WATCH IT, DON'T READ THIS, AND IF YOU DO DON'T GET MAD AT ME!


In the movie's opening scene, Iranians are trying to break down the gates of the emmbassy in order to get into the embassy and torture, and or kill the people inside.  They beginning the invasion of the embassy by just one climbing over the fence.  Then more people climb, and soon they are overcome.  People are taken hostage and six people get away to the Canadian ammbassitor which is still in Iran.  All he'll breaks loose over in Iran, and there is a very, VERY slim rate of survival.  They barely escape with their lives, but during this period of time when the six people escaped and were in hiding, mass panic ensues among the Americans.  People are killed practically everyday in Iran during this time, just for looking like an American, or looking like they have something to do with it.

Now all of this could have been prevented if the soldiers had shot those first people climbing over the gate, instead they shoot tear gas into the mass crowd after getting past the wall surrounding the embassy, who then get into the embassy itself.

Do you think the soldiers should have shot those first few people who burned the American flag cheering? 

[Birdbrain]

Well what started the Iranians hating Americans in the first place? Prevention is the best cure

[FlickerYourOwnIdentity]

I don't understand why people are so obsessed with judgement and punishment of individuals other than themselves.

The funny thing is kanga, if I did this God strike me down where I stand.  I would despise myself if I was a murderer, or a serial killer, I would beg someone to kill me.

Judgement and punishment...  I'll refer to another movie, which I believe perfectly depicts a senario where there is no judgement, or punishment.

Dark Knight Rises.

IM SORRY BUT DARK KNIGHT RISES SPOILER ALERT FOR PRACTICALLY REST OF ARTICLE!!!

When Bane is in charge the city, people ran around committing crimes, executing former officials of the law.  What happened during that period where people had no form of justice, no form of just judgement.
To put it simply, hell broke loose.
Nobody stopped those crimes because there were no consequences!!!  That world that you describe, where "there is no need for justice like that", Is A Living HELL!  WOULD YOU RATHER KANGA THAT PEOPLE RUN AROUND KILLING YOUR LOVING FAMILY JUST BECAUSE THEY COULD!!!  WOULDNT YOU WANT JUSTICE!!!!

If not I feel sorry for you.

[Birdbrain]

I'm not saying there shouldn't be punishment. I definitely agree with the concept of your statement infinite. I'm just saying, there are other ways (other than tourture that is) to exact punishment. And on the climbing over the fence thing, they could have shot to disable, not just shot to kill. You don't have to kill someone just because there invading your embassy. After all, what is the American embassy for? Correct me if I'm wrong (I often am) I understand it to be for peace

[FlickerYourOwnIdentity]

I'm not saying there shouldn't be punishment. I definitely agree with the concept of your statement infinite. I'm just saying, there are other ways (other than tourture that is) to exact punishment. And on the climbing over the fence thing, they could have shot to disable, not just shot to kill. You don't have to kill someone just because there invading your embassy. After all, what is the American embassy for? Correct me if I'm wrong (I often am) I understand it to be for peace

Aww but I like the torture :)

In all seriousness the idea is not to disable, the embassy is considered government sanctioned soil, meaning if your trespass with malice intent, we have full right to shoot you and kill you.

And to disable is worse than killing somebody.  That's like telling somebody, "oh you won't be able to walk, or sit right for the rest of your life, but at least your still alive!". That is torture, death in my belief is more merciful.

[Birdbrain]

I'm curious what Kangarod belives on killing in self defense. Would they let a person trying to kill them kill them or not?

[FlickerYourOwnIdentity]

Then the crowds eyes shift from the heated debate between birdbrain and flicker over to the other debator KANGAROD! 

What will he say? Find out on the next episode of, POST YOUR REPLY!!!

[FlickerYourOwnIdentity]

Oh, and I hope everyone realizes this, we are not resenting you because of your belief, we are just engaged in a friendly debate.  It may not seem like it with all my yelling (sorry, I feed off drama at times), but we are all friends here.  Nobody hates you, so just realize, it is ok. :)

[Missingkirby34]

Can anyone say GUANTANAMO BAY?

[Gorzo]

Kanga, not to be "that guy," but I have to point out that for someone with such an obsession against judgment and hypocrisy, you sure are judging those who disagree with you rather quickly and harshly.

Saying that I, dorky gamer nerd who's devoted his entire life to making the people around him happy even when it costs my own happiness or health, am worse than a mass murderer, for example, is pretty dangerous rhetoric.

On an unrelated note, Nightwolf, thank you for your service! They may not have appreciated your precence over there, but if nothing else, I appreciate it over here, and I know I'm not alone. If you're still serving, stay safe! If you're home, welcome back!

[Dudecore]

I think NightWolf is confusing one bad thing for another. While I appreciate your understanding of what you've sacrificed for what you gained - the fact that we treat veterans like garbage, or believe that prisoners "have it easy" is misguided. They're are not mutually exclusive.

Prisoners do not have an easy life, rehabilitation is not the goal of prison in this country. We merely teach them how to become more effective, more violent, give them no coping skills and life lessons.

I am deeply troubled by the idea so many people believe in "free will". I've had this discussion here before, and unwilling to go about it again. I've said my piece, haven't really been addressed, and haven't made much of an impact. I feel as though we've had a proper discourse.

[Coffee Vampire]

It is interesting to say that all of mankind is righteous at the core. This poses the question, why are we righteous at our core? If all men are born good, then what corrupts them? What corrupted the first man? It doesn't seem to make sense that everyone has good in them. It's a nice thought, but the theory lacks support. By all indication, people are selfish at the core.

[Gorzo]

And what of sociopathy? A well established psychiatric condition in which the person simply has no moral compass.

While I wholeheartedly agree that the vast majority of humanity is good in its heart, it's undeniable that there is an existence of evil people out there. They have shown themselves through history, from Caligula to Hitler.

Ideals are good and all, but there is no such thing as perfection. Without compensation for the flaws in the world, in people, in societies, in life, you are either going to collide with disappointment or be run over by the car of life because you didn't look both ways.

[Piotr]

I don't understand how punishing people actually had any benefit. It's clear that it didn't deter the crime, and so perhaps since it didn't serve its purpose, you can try something new?

I beg your pardon? There's world of evidence to back up theory that punishment deters crime. Even in the particular case of Boston Bombings nothing is clear. For all we know they could have scaled down from 2000 man operation to 2 man operation because 1998 were afraid of the punishment.

We already tried something new: prevention. It failed miserably.

I will repeat: the purpose of punishment is not to deter crime, it is to deal justice. Punishment indeed deters crime, but that's just added bonus.