Mental Illness in the US

[cltrn81]

My theory here is that it would be very difficult for that particular guy to kill so many people if majority of teachers were armed. He would still kill people but not nearly as many. That is all.

So is it mandatory for teachers to have guns?  Who issues these guns or do teachers bring their own?  Is there a risk of troubled students disarming a teacher in a scuffle and turning the gun on others?  Will teachers approach fighting students with guns drawn like police officers?  I am a risk analysis type of person and these are the questions I would be considering for likelihood and impact.....then weigh the benefits.

[Empathie]

Must fix the school and social environment first before taking guns into consideration

[Coffee Vampire]

Sorry to the OP if this is too far off topic.

Yeah it is possible that the armed guards could just add to the body count. But on the othe hand, trained guards > psycho killer.

[MisterJH]

Then theres the issue of unstable teachers... Super liberal anti-gun, anti-violence, PITA>humans teachers... Molesting teachers who now have guns to ensure they are more secure from authority, as students will be much more afraid... Logically giving all teachers guns is like giving every monkey a big red button that blows somethin up... Not every monkey cares, in fact many monkeys may simply put the button down an continue.. But then theres a curious monkey, or simply a bad monkey.. That monkey goin' press that button... Then what happens when every other monkey finds out just what they can do with their button? Well damn i bet some more monkeys will start pressing that button fo sho... Look up the monkeys and the ladder scenario, its a similar explanati

[Coffee Vampire]

LOL giving teachers guns would be pure insanity. I agree. Sounds like something from a post apocalyptic movie where teachers rule the world.

[Empathie]

People discussing this should be more aware of fundamental attribution error...

[Piotr]

Yeah it is possible that the armed guards could just add to the body count. But on the othe hand, trained guards > psycho killer.

It is possible that they would stop the killer at the door. Now, which is more probable?

LOL giving teachers guns would be pure insanity.

Well, I'm mildly offended by this one

Then theres the issue of unstable teachers... Super liberal anti-gun, anti-violence, PITA>humans teachers... Molesting teachers who now have guns to ensure they are more secure from authority, as students will be much more afraid... Logically giving all teachers guns is like giving every monkey a big red button that blows somethin up... Not every monkey cares, in fact many monkeys may simply put the button down an continue.. But then theres a curious monkey, or simply a bad monkey.. That monkey goin' press that button... Then what happens when every other monkey finds out just what they can do with their button? Well damn i bet some more monkeys will start pressing that button fo sho... Look up the monkeys and the ladder scenario, its a similar explanati

I would understand from this that you are deeply opposed to the school system as such, and offended by the fact that government is forcing your children to be educated by the monkeys, correct? O.o
I mean, you cannot seriously hold such a very low opinion on a group of people and at the same time give them a much more difficult and responsible task. Any moron can be trained to handle gun safely, you are suggesting that the teachers are below that. Not very logical to me

[Piotr]

My theory here is that it would be very difficult for that particular guy to kill so many people if majority of teachers were armed. He would still kill people but not nearly as many. That is all.

So is it mandatory for teachers to have guns?  Who issues these guns or do teachers bring their own?  Is there a risk of troubled students disarming a teacher in a scuffle and turning the gun on others?  Will teachers approach fighting students with guns drawn like police officers?  I am a risk analysis type of person and these are the questions I would be considering for likelihood and impact.....then weigh the benefits.

Exactly, you have to approach it with cold logic, no emotions whatsoever. You analyse this and try to find solution. In the scenario where all the teachers would be armed, the body count is estimated to be 5 rather than 25. At the same time the body count of various accidents caused by arming teachers is 10. Total 15 vs. 25. Easy.

[MisterJH]

Yeah it is possible that the armed guards could just add to the body count. But on the othe hand, trained guards > psycho killer.

It is possible that they would stop the killer at the door. Now, which is more probable?

LOL giving teachers guns would be pure insanity.

Well, I'm mildly offended by this one

Then theres the issue of unstable teachers... Super liberal anti-gun, anti-violence, PITA>humans teachers... Molesting teachers who now have guns to ensure they are more secure from authority, as students will be much more afraid... Logically giving all teachers guns is like giving every monkey a big red button that blows somethin up... Not every monkey cares, in fact many monkeys may simply put the button down an continue.. But then theres a curious monkey, or simply a bad monkey.. That monkey goin' press that button... Then what happens when every other monkey finds out just what they can do with their button? Well damn i bet some more monkeys will start pressing that button fo sho... Look up the monkeys and the ladder scenario, its a similar explanati

I would understand from this that you are deeply opposed to the school system as such, and offended by the fact that government is forcing your children to be educated by the monkeys, correct? O.o
I mean, you cannot seriously hold such a very low opinion on a group of people and at the same time give them a much more difficult and responsible task. Any moron can be trained to handle gun safely, you are suggesting that the teachers are below that. Not very logical to me

To be fair.. There are some surprisingly unqualified teachers.. The monkeys were just an analogy, its natural instinct rather than intellectual similarities i was going for.. And suppose gun training was part of teacher training? First of all, more $$ we dont have, as well as trained teachers handling guns if one happens to snap and go crazy, which doesnt happen often, but like i said its still an unecessary temptation/risk/expense... Back to the education system, ive generlaly had horrendous teachers and have learned all of my reading/writing skills on my own, so ya im not a huge fan but thats besides the point.

[MisterJH]

I think anyone could agree arming teachers is not even a considerable option, especially with complications of government. There would be no way around the legalities. Then, arguments would be made that students need a way to defend against teachers... So every student now can carry a gun potentially.. BUT THEN, some students are poor! So we issue EVERY STUDENT school guns! So now we supply kids with guns to be FAIR! Because we're in AMERICA, and things need to be FAIR now! No, giving teachers guns would be the biggest failure on the part of any government ever.. What we need to do is realize there is not a damn thing we can do honestly, without creating a myriad of other problems. The best we can do is be vigilant, and dont dare take guns away from people lest only criminals have firearms in public, with no way for those with a concealed weapons license to scare off the common criminal. Nothing we do is goingto get rid of the black market, so changing the legalities will only succeed in more illegal gun trade. Bleh this issue is pretty stupid

[Empathie]

Another analogy mine as well be is to give the children guns

[Piotr]

Guys, we're just theorising here. None of what we think or say has any impact on actual government.

[Gorzo]

My theory here is that it would be very difficult for that particular guy to kill so many people if majority of teachers were armed. He would still kill people but not nearly as many. That is all.

So is it mandatory for teachers to have guns?  Who issues these guns or do teachers bring their own?  Is there a risk of troubled students disarming a teacher in a scuffle and turning the gun on others?  Will teachers approach fighting students with guns drawn like police officers?  I am a risk analysis type of person and these are the questions I would be considering for likelihood and impact.....then weigh the benefits.

This is my train of thought as well. It seems like the hypothetical risks outweigh the hypothetical benefits. Even if, lets say, our army of gun-toting vigilante teachers stops the 1 rare shooter like this one (who I still say would have just used a bomb if he couldn't have gone in with a gun - killers will find a way to kill, they always have, always will), will the number of lives saved even be higher than lives lost by accidental deaths from incompetent gun-bearing teachers, incidents involving student-teacher conflicts, and abuse from power-crazed teachers that are now armed?  And what if a teacher goes crazy? We GAVE him a gun. His classroom is gone.

[Piotr]

I'm a member of 100 years old shooting club. The club trained me and God knows how many others. The number of gun accidents in the club since 1909: zero. Guns are not nearly as dangerous as I'm reading here, you are scared of them for no proper reason.

To change the subject a bit, there is documented ~1000 statistical deaths by car in 2002, these were caused by gut feelings of people who decided to take the car rather than a plane. It was caused by unreasonable fear after 9.11.

As a side note, anything .politics.-related from me on this forum assumes that iMtG Law is potentially The Constitution of US of A .politics. is my hobby, and I was practicing it much longer than Magic, I know bits and bobs about it. I'm not really interested in real .politics., I'm interested in science of law. I believe that the .politics. of today should be replaced with anything else. There's no less-logical system than democracy of today. Democracy solves no problems, it creates a hell of a lot. Nomocracy is what I believe is the future of mankind.

[Keyeto]

What if we gave the guns to the teachers, but they were stored in some sort of safe box, perhaps all controlled by a central control (which would open the safe box) in the principals office or something? Or maybe if one was opened, an alarm would go off of some sort, so that we would know that a teacher "snapped" or something. A system like this might work out, all the teachers have guns, but don't have access to them unless a crisis is happening (provided the central control thing could work). That way they can protect themselves, and we don't have to worry about accidents.