Infinite Undying

BlackJester · January 31, 2012, 03:25:27 PM

Quote from: Mentonin on January 31, 2012, 03:17:29 PM
Quote from: Karrthus on January 31, 2012, 03:10:49 PM
I ran into this problem at a tourney with proliferate. I had a creature with 3 +1/+1 counters that was give 2 -1/-1 counters. The judge said when I proliferated he was given both counters because both were there. So -1/1 counter does not cancel out a +1/+1 counter because both exist on the creature.
no way. First of, you can choose which counters to proliferate. Second u can only proliferate 1 type of counter for each permanent. Last of all, the counters cancel each other.

Nope, if you target a permanent with proliferate, you add one of every counter already on it. No picking and choosing.

Mentonin · January 31, 2012, 03:29:46 PM

Really? Hate Portuguese translations, one time it even said "creatures can't attack" instead of "creatures can't block" ... I'm pretty sure it says only one counter per creature in Portuguese.
P.S. the actual cards translations, not iMtG's

Mentonin · January 31, 2012, 03:32:10 PM

Read 701.23b, isn't there saying that u choose?

BlackJester · January 31, 2012, 05:14:39 PM

Quote from: Mentonin on January 31, 2012, 03:32:10 PM
Read 701.23b, isn't there saying that u choose?

I'll be damned! You're absolutely correct!
The reminder text for proliferate:
You choose any number of permanents and/or players with counters on them, then give each another counter of a kind already there.

When I read that, it sounds like you add one of each kind, not one of any kind.

But, right from the Comp Rules:
701.24b If a permanent or player chosen this way has more than one kind of counter, the player who is proliferating chooses which kind of counter to add.

So, basically Karrthus, that judge failed on two counts! XD

Theroguard · January 31, 2012, 05:26:59 PM

Judge are not always right I'm having a fight with my judge about lifelink

Mentonin · January 31, 2012, 05:45:47 PM

Quote from: Theroguard on January 31, 2012, 05:26:59 PM
Judge are not always right I'm having a fight with my judge about lifelink

what is he saying?

JakeyWakey · January 31, 2012, 11:59:04 PM

Quote from: Theroguard on January 31, 2012, 05:26:59 PM
Judge are not always right I'm having a fight with my judge about lifelink

Use this app as a judge, if you have a question, type a keyword in the search bar, it's worth it, I had a guy try to flip a Dfc during combat somehow, don't really remember the exact action, but he is suppose to be training to be a judge, and he was wrong, trust no one, unless you're at a wizards tournament, prolly not a good idea to pick fights.

BlackJester · February 01, 2012, 12:03:14 AM

Quote from: JakeyWakey on January 31, 2012, 11:59:04 PM
Quote from: Theroguard on January 31, 2012, 05:26:59 PM
Judge are not always right I'm having a fight with my judge about lifelink
Use this app as a judge, if you have a question, type a keyword in the search bar, it's worth it, I had a guy try to flip a Dfc during combat somehow, don't really remember the exact action, but he is suppose to be training to be a judge, and he was wrong, trust no one, unless you're at a wizards tournament, prolly not a good idea to pick fights.

â˜â˜â˜â˜â˜â˜â˜â˜â˜
What he said. I use this app and MTGJudge to settle all disputes.

AgentOfBolas · February 04, 2012, 01:00:14 AM

Cauldron of souls works too. Came up with this when I realized undying was backwards persist.

Spikepit · February 04, 2012, 01:29:14 AM

Quote from: AgentOfBolas on February 04, 2012, 01:00:14 AM
{Cauldron of Souls} works too. Came up with this when I realized undying was backwards persist.

Rass · February 04, 2012, 09:56:18 AM

Ok so what happens if you have a 1/1 with both persist and undying. It dies you bring it back with undying. It dies again can you bring it back with persist and then right again with undying to have basically a 2/2 forever?
Hope that makes sense

Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker · February 04, 2012, 10:35:05 AM

I'm pretty sure that you can't use both at once. Be awsome if u could, though.

BlackJester · February 04, 2012, 11:02:46 AM

Quote from: Rass on February 04, 2012, 09:56:18 AM
Ok so what happens if you have a 1/1 with both persist and undying. It dies you bring it back with undying. It dies again can you bring it back with persist and then right again with undying to have basically a 2/2 forever?
Hope that makes sense

If you have a creature with both undying and persist, when the creature dies both abilities will trigger (if there were no counters were on it). You decide the order to stack them. When the last ability will resolve first it will return the creature and place the appropriate counter on it. The other ability will do nothing because the creature won't be in your gy anymore.

tl;dr. You do one or the other, not both. And a 1/1 with persist is probably not a stellar idea. ðŸ˜œ

Rass · February 04, 2012, 12:14:16 PM

Yes but the 1/1 comes back with the plus ones so now he dies he cannot come back again with undying correct? So I have him come back with persists so he dies again so now can I bring him back with undying or is he gone forever.

BlackJester · February 04, 2012, 01:01:12 PM

Quote from: Rass on February 04, 2012, 12:14:16 PM
Yes but the 1/1 comes back with the plus ones so now he dies he cannot come back again with undying correct? So I have him come back with persists so he dies again so now can I bring him back with undying or is he gone forever.

Yeah, that would work. Undying checks to see if he had a +1/+1 at TOD (time of death XD). If persist brought it back, then it would die being a 0/0 and undying would brin it back as a 2/2.