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The idea is that you don't even need to do anything besides what you are already doing lol

5 and win the game? Would you please link me to the excellent combo that pulls this off? Or is it an artifact that reads

Apple's Core [5]

Criticize a archetype, T: Win the game

Ok, how about tempered steel? It wins on turn 3,4,5 without hassle. How about humans? Wins turn 5,6,7 no problem. Tokens? Wins turn 5,6,7 Now do you want me to further explain why aggro is fast?

tempered steel wins on turn 3? Please for the love of god explain that to me. Go ahead. Gimme a turn 3 win combo. Be sure to link the cards specifically. Standard only please.

Wonderful! Glad I can enhance the educational value of this.
T1: mox opal, 2 memnites, land, 2 signal pest.
T2: land, tempered steel, swing for 16
T3: win

[nothing]

Apple, to say that curses arent good for you or bad against your opponent is insane to say, using your logic a {Stromkirk Noble} wouldn't  be a good card because it doesn't do anything for you, no card advantage effect, life-gain, nothing, and wouldn't be good against your opponent because who knows, your reasoning against curses doing nothing against an opponent is mind boggling to me. Does -1/-1 to each and every creature sound like nothing to you? While curses also don't give direct advantage, the do pose a threat to an opponent. A standard deck in the meta isn't prepared for curses, so they'll be staying. {Curse of Echoes} locks down all counter-spells. And different curses will be hurting the opponent severely each turn. Saying something isn't playable, doesn't make it unplayable.

What I am saying is that they are not good compared to other things you could be doing with the same resources. You can pay five to find some more curses, or you could pay five and win the game.
{stromkirk noble} kills your opponent very very quickly, and becomes a huge threat. So yes, it doesn't do stuff for you, but it harm the opponent since it kinda just wins games.

First off, your argument that it cant do anything until turm 10 was completely incorrect. I clearly posted a win by turn 8. Then you argued that things could be faster such as a titan winning by turn nine. Just what? Turn 9 < turn 8? And a Stormkirk Noble = auto win? since when?! Maybe against humans, but what about ANY other type? Then its just a 1/1. I know im not going to convince you that curses are good, youve clearly made up your mind that they arent. But you dont have to keep ripping on them because of personal preference.

Ok maybe you are fully understanding my points. What I am saying and it's ALL I'm saying is that people have better ways to win! Those cards are examples of efficient ways to win! They do not need to wait for a turn, pull another curse, wait another turn, pull another curse, deal some damage and hope none of that goes bad. One simple mana leak, negate, dissipate, stoic rebuttal, cancel, oblivion ring, ratchet bomb, natralize, ray of revelation, and even disenchant is enough to completely screw over this deck. What I am saying and ALL IM SAYING is that there are better things to do with your deck!

5 and win the game? Would you please link me to the excellent combo that pulls this off? Or is it an artifact that reads

Apple's Core [5]

Criticize a archetype, T: Win the game

Ok, how about tempered steel? It wins on turn 3,4,5 without hassle. How about humans? Wins turn 5,6,7 no problem. Tokens? Wins turn 5,6,7 Now do you want me to further explain why aggro is fast?

[nothing]

Apple, to say that curses arent good for you or bad against your opponent is insane to say, using your logic a {Stromkirk Noble} wouldn't  be a good card because it doesn't do anything for you, no card advantage effect, life-gain, nothing, and wouldn't be good against your opponent because who knows, your reasoning against curses doing nothing against an opponent is mind boggling to me. Does -1/-1 to each and every creature sound like nothing to you? While curses also don't give direct advantage, the do pose a threat to an opponent. A standard deck in the meta isn't prepared for curses, so they'll be staying. {Curse of Echoes} locks down all counter-spells. And different curses will be hurting the opponent severely each turn. Saying something isn't playable, doesn't make it unplayable.

What I am saying is that they are not good compared to other things you could be doing with the same resources. You can pay five to find some more curses, or you could pay five and win the game.
{stromkirk noble} kills your opponent very very quickly, and becomes a huge threat. So yes, it doesn't do stuff for you, but it harm the opponent since it kinda just wins games.

{elixir of immortality} boom.

Naw, I think there is no need for such extreme remedies. Just kill them by turn 8 and you will be all good

I see a severe lack of examples in your post there sir, here, let me help you with that.

Turn 5: Curse of Misfortunes
Turn 6: Curse of Misfortunes (cast/witch sac) and free Curse of Thirst
Turn 7: Curse of Thirst and Curse of Death's Hold (both free) Cast or sac witch for second Curse of Thirst or a Curse of Bloodletting

All this adds up to weakened opponent creatures for my survivability, all the while ive been getting bonuses for sacing, such as life gain, or counters. Did I mention they are now directly taking about 12 damage per turn with only more to come?

Turn 8: free Curse of Exhaustion and Echoes. 16 damage per turn. Need I go on?

But I dont know... Five whole mana? That seems a bit much for so "little payoff".

Oh boy, you can perhaps do something by turn 10, as if any other deck isn't gonna do anything about that. How about I play stromkirk noble and kill you singlehandedly by turn 7? Or play a Titan (any Titan) and exterminate you by turn 9? Or I could simply pull a tiny mana leak out and screw your entire deck over for many many many turns to come. This archetype simply ISN'T GOOD, and simply trying isn't gonna make the cards any better.

Vote: who wants me to rant on about the unplayability of most curses?

Personally, I vote you rant about how to make it better, not how it doesnt work :p

The problem with that is: there is no way to make curses function any better. They simply don't work, and if you want me to explain my reasoning, do say so. My alternative? Abolish curses, replace with new archetype

Really now? And how many Curse decks have you personally play tested? One? Maybe two? Perhaps you have simply beaten one a few times and are assuming it was because curses dont work. In that case, more likely, you should be saying poorly built decks dont work, or decks that havent had time to be tweaked and fine tuned dont work; in which case you are most certainly correct: bad decks ARE bad. However, as I believe, given the opportunity to master a new archetype, any deck idea can be developed into a strong, playable, dare I say, even highly competetive deck. Time has proven time and again that seemingly weak ideas can become strong given the opportunity and time to do so. With just a little patience and innovation, almost anything can be pulled off efectively.

Stuff are inherently bad, Im glad we can agree on this. What I am saying is that stuff doesn't just get better because "we put time into it." the materials, the strategy, they playability of the cards itself isn't going to simply get better because we try to make it be. Cards are (most if not all the time) inherently good/bad. Why does anyone need to play against every single deck in the world to be able to judge them? Logical reasoning tells us whether a deck is good or not base upon our perception on the value and correlation between the functions of the cards themselves. People don't just simply make something "good" because they try to. Things that are inherently bad can get "better" but they will almost never be good.

Welcome to another episode of the guru channel everyday! Today we are going over some things about curses!
1. Curses are extremely expensive are are not worth what they cost.
-most curses out there cost somewhere from 3-5 mana, and they are all absolutely horrible! Why? Well one thing is for sure is that they don't have a great ability, nor do they work together as an archetype to make a deck function properly.
-most curses do not win you any games. As you may probably already know, these curses simply allow you to maybe get value out of them once or twice in a game, if at all. These curses posseses no relevant abilities and they do not win you any games. For five mana, I can play a havengul lich and simply win the game. They are simply not good cards when compared to everything else you can possibly use in the entire 1500+ cards in standard. These cards are a waste of mana and a precious card slot in your deck to do something, say; make them lose one life for a few turns.
2. These cards do nothing against anything else.
-not only do they do nothing FOR you, they also do nothing AGAINST your opponents. When determining a value of a card, one would logically look at what things it can possible do for you, or to screw with yor opponent. Curses on the otherhand, do not really help you, nor do they hinder your opponent by any significant amount. No curses with stop your opponent from playing {frost Titan} and crushing your face with it. They won't stop them when they {day of judgment} everything you have off the face of the world. So, it is clear that the curses essentially do nothing.
3. There are better alternatives
-as mentioned before, there are so many things you can do with cards and mana, curses simply do not outweigh at all in importance in any shape or form. They do not help win, or help opponent lose, so it's like playing something and watching it do almost nothing, and stare in profound disappointment. Solution: play something better!

Now curses can be a fun deck, just to troll with others. What I am saying is not to disprove this, but to simply say that when you play this, don't expect to win anything past casual. Curses can be fun, but they are terrible terrible cards overall. If you care at all about winning a game, don't play this archetype.

The solution is simple! Kill them before they kill you! Mill is a very slow archetype, a regular vampires will be able to take a baseball bat to mill. If it doesn't, it probably doesn't work as it probably should be. Do u mind posting it so we can all take a gander?

Vote: who wants me to rant on about the unplayability of most curses?

Personally, I vote you rant about how to make it better, not how it doesnt work :p

The problem with that is: there is no way to make curses function any better. They simply don't work, and if you want me to explain my reasoning, do say so. My alternative? Abolish curses, replace with new archetype

You have {curse of the stalked prey}, {Stromkirk Noble}, and {stormblood berserker}.  The proliferate was just a suggestions and quite feasable IMO...  Are you posting decks for suggestions or just to prove your self-perceived awesomeness????  If you don't want suggestions then don't post decks....

Edit: not trying to be rude here.....but you should be more tactful in your rebuttal to people offering friendly advice.

This deck wasn't meant for any advice, merely to show someone from another thread. Afterall, this was labeled sample deck.
If you had seen my other thread, you would know this was to use as an example.
I apologize that I didn't lable this any better than I did to make it more clear that this was for someone particular.

Well, that's not really the reaso why it is so bad, te creature base is fine, just the mana disallows this deck to play at all.

Okay, I am really missing why the manabase disallows the deck to play.  I must be missing something here.  I see red spells, i see white spells, I see Mountains, I see Plains.  Can anyone enlighten this poor confused soul?

Actually, this mana base is quite poorly constructed. I simply do not have the required lands to pour the right colors of mana while keeping them untapped when they hit the field. I am often times forced to wait two or more turns to stabilize my mana base in order to start pouring stuff on the battlefield.

I'm confused as well. The mana base looks fine to me. - 1 {Evolving Wilds}. My multi-colored decks usually have 10-14 basic land, which is what you have.

I can't stand playing any less than two full sets of double lands, which is obviously what I'm not getting. I can't afford to waste turn 1 or 2 to get my mana going, I need to get in the game and play everything right away.

Vote: who wants me to rant on about the unplayability of most curses?

I would take out the bloodhall. I just realized that alot of people are playing R/B +1/+1 counters and are leaving out a key card, {Volt Charge}. I would also try to incorporate {Tezzeret's Gambit}, drawing cards in R/B=lethal. The deck as is, is still pretty nice and looks like a challenge.

I am very aware of the fact that I can poliferate, but i have no real targets worth proliferating, and I see no reason to add a mislanious draw spell that forces me to lose life.
Now my mana base has no real problems, I may as well have a land that does something, it's better than having a basic land.