So delver keeps kicking everyone's butt over at the card shop I go to, is that happening just over here or is it like that everywhere?
Quote from: Jdogtoocool on July 13, 2012, 11:03:03 PM
So delver keeps kicking everyone's butt over at the card shop I go to, is that happening just over here or is it like that everywhere?
If not delver then its Naya Aggro or Naya Pod.
Delver gets stomped.
So easy.
I played delver at FNM not once not twice but three times tonight... I did well I beat all three 2 games to 1.
My deck is white green angel human with some mana ramp. Simply put the guys i played had mana problems. I was lucky enough to be faster. Also all but one game I was starring at a 3/2 flyer turn 2.
2 weeks ago I played my infect deck, won all three of my games and finished first. The week before that was a mono red deck that featured vexing devils, stormkirk nobles and a few bloodlust creatures... The mono red was just too fast...
Only one guy plays delver at my fnm ans it it is more of a spirit deck.
My meta typically has u/b controll, g/w humans, and RDW in top 8
Quote from: Thorn on July 13, 2012, 11:15:42 PM
Quote from: Jdogtoocool on July 13, 2012, 11:03:03 PM
So delver keeps kicking everyone's butt over at the card shop I go to, is that happening just over here or is it like that everywhere?
If not delver then its Naya Aggro or Naya Pod.
Yeah that's exactly it over here too I play infect because it's the only thing that gives me a chance at breaking into top 4
YMMV = Your Meta May Vary
My meta is zombies!!!
The top winning decks at my shop are two delver decks, one red green aggro, a somberwald ramp, my teammate's UG infect, and my Heartless Summonig. All of which tend to atleast get 4-1
Oh a stonehorn lock happened to get second to my heartless (we were both 4-0 it was a slow night so only 4 rounds) lastnight by beating the somberwald. Most of us have learned to destroy delver but it does still put up a fight since three of our "top" players play it, but i think thats cause they're not creative enough to make a different idea work.
If its not broke, don't fix it
Quote from: Willthomjr on July 14, 2012, 12:46:56 PM
If its not broke, don't fix it
I think why the rogues are beating their delvers is cause they have them teched for a major event like most of the builds online. In a major event theres no need to worry about heartless, or somberwald thats for sure.
Monogreen Aggro
Solar Flare
Quote from: darkarts981 on July 14, 2012, 01:04:13 PM
Monogreen Aggro
Solar Flare
Solarflare? Really. Is no one playing heavy enough aggro aside from the mono green?
Yeah solar flare seems to be to slow.
RDW
Mono green
Naya humans
U/w delver
U/r delver
Naya pod
Zombies / pod
Are decks that I've seen last couple standard nights.
Solar flare?
Quote from: AgrusKos on July 14, 2012, 01:39:25 PM
Solar flare?
Esper (blue white black) control involving reanimation of the {sun titan} {phantasmal image} relationship and usually {elesh norn, grand cenobite}.
Ok
Quote from: Kaleo42 on July 14, 2012, 01:19:31 PM
Quote from: darkarts981 on July 14, 2012, 01:04:13 PM
Monogreen Aggro
Solar Flare
Solarflare? Really. Is no one playing heavy enough aggro aside from the mono green?
Not at my FNM
Delver, green red aggro and solar flare :P
Delver, Wolf Run Ramp and sometimes Solar Flare. Solar Flare is a rogue deck round these parts, gets really favorable matchups.
What about token decks and milling decks? There's a little bit of everything at the card shop I go to and sometimes the home brews win the whole thing
Quote from: Jdogtoocool on July 15, 2012, 12:38:43 AM
What about token decks and milling decks? There's a little bit of everything at the card shop I go to and sometimes the home brews win the whole thing
On the days my team doesnt go tokens and humans seem to win for some reason, but they make up a small portion of the 30-50 people at fnm.
The rogues worth mentioning from my local meta are:
Stonehorn varients
U/W spirits (most consitant deck ever!)
Somberwald aggro ({craterhoof behemoth})
Somberwald aggro control ({frost titan})
Turbo fog (rarely)
U/B deck destruction/mill
The shops owner has 4 color pod
Green black aggros
Vampires of different sorts
Angel ramp
Combo heartless
Black red life drain
And of course my heartless.
If any of you would like to know more about any of these decks i know them all pretty well and can explain it or provide a decklist.
What's turbo fog all about?
Quote from: Jdogtoocool on July 15, 2012, 06:10:21 AM
What's turbo fog all about?
1) Cast {fog} or a spell just like it every turn. Basically stall until {Tamiyo, the Moon Sage} gets her emblem down so you can cast the same fog a bajillion times a turn for the rest of the game.
2) your opponent runs out of cards.
3) watch your back in the parking lot, because you cheesed off everyone you played with by using such a frustrating, obnoxious deck.
I'm working on a FFA Turbofog control. More of a slow fog than a turbo fog.
Quote from: Jdogtoocool on July 15, 2012, 06:10:21 AM
What's turbo fog all about?
Preventing all combat damage (damage period depending on what cards you have available). Back door milling them.
In standard it works, but it looks like there are better cards coming up for TF which Im pretty happy with considering I love mill/TF decks.
Quote from: BlackJester on July 15, 2012, 11:30:12 AM
I'm working on a FFA Turbofog control. More of a slow fog than a turbo fog.
Ha! I've been working on a 'turbo burn' deck. Stall with fogs an what not, and set up a miracle {thunderous wrath} over and over. With {noxious revival} and that other green instant that puts a card from your graveyard to the top of your deck.
Quote from: Gorzo on July 15, 2012, 06:55:07 AM
Quote from: Jdogtoocool on July 15, 2012, 06:10:21 AM
What's turbo fog all about?
1) Cast {fog} or a spell just like it every turn. Basically stall until {Tamiyo, the Moon Sage} gets her emblem down so you can cast the same fog a bajillion times a turn for the rest of the game.
2) your opponent runs out of cards.
3) watch your back in the parking lot, because you cheesed off everyone you played with by using such a frustrating, obnoxious deck.
Lol that's messed up almost as bad as stonehorn lock if not worse
Quote from: Harmon74 on July 15, 2012, 02:37:32 PM
Quote from: BlackJester on July 15, 2012, 11:30:12 AM
I'm working on a FFA Turbofog control. More of a slow fog than a turbo fog.
Ha! I've been working on a 'turbo burn' deck. Stall with fogs an what not, and set up a miracle {thunderous wrath} over and over. With {noxious revival} and that other green instant that puts a card from your graveyard to the top of your deck.
{Chalice (of Life)} fog, might not be as efficient as milling variants, but in a FFA where everyone should be getting soften up by others...
I was one point of life away from winning my FFA group with my ControlFog. 😭
Quote from: BlackJester on July 21, 2012, 12:05:11 PM
I was one point of life away from winning my FFA group with my ControlFog. 😭
Snap! Love tf!
Quote from: Jdogtoocool on July 13, 2012, 11:03:03 PM
So delver keeps kicking everyone's butt over at the card shop I go to, is that happening just over here or is it like that everywhere?
http://mtgo-stats.com/
Quote from: KangaRod on July 22, 2012, 04:19:57 AM
Quote from: BlackJester on July 21, 2012, 12:05:11 PM
I was one point of life away from winning my FFA group with my ControlFog. 😭
God damn fog
XD Hahaha indeed. But so far it's actually not as annoying in multiplayer, since people can just attack someone else. Plus, when it was down to three of us, I fogged to save an opponent so that he could help me kill the other guy. MEAT SHIELD FIGHTS BACK! 👊
That dungrove green deck is winning
My fnms. Stupid dungrove elders. Also, how do u autorag?
Quote from: Fishsticks123 on July 22, 2012, 01:33:54 PM
That dungrove green deck is winning
My fnms. Stupid dungrove elders. Also, how do u autorag?
Dungrove dies to sac and wrath. Us the curly brackets around the name of the card. Quote me and look at {dungrove elder}.
I think mono green probably got a huge help from {rancor}. But does one spell really make it that much more viable? Probably not.
Trample is always viable in a heavy creature enviroment but i think it's {revenge of the hunted} and {strangleroot geist} that really make the difference.
I thought it was {Wolfir Silverheart}. 😏
Quote from: BlackJester on July 22, 2012, 03:38:28 PM
I thought it was {Wolfir Silverheart}. 😏
While good, it only ends games because those oter cards close the gap so fast an press you against a wall.
If you do it in response you will get rid of the {Rancor}. Do it while Rancor is still on the stack and it'll be countered. After that, you're hooped.
Holy s---!!!! That thing is 14 bucke?! Damn I won't be getting those easily.. D:
Still, a possible +12 damage on the table for five mana is one hell o a bargain.
Notice I said possible. He could just be a 4/4 for five which is nothing to sneer at.
{Thragtusk} is an amazing card, but it doesnt measure up yet just because it is hard to come by. I have yet to face on yet, but ive played out a lot of senerios and they impact te fame for sure, but i would still prefer that to a silverheart.
{Thragtusk} will be in Wolf Run Ramp post rotation. He's in Wolf Run decks around here currently, give wolfrun the juice is needs to beat Delver.
Quote from: Dudecore on July 22, 2012, 04:49:27 PM
{Thragtusk} will be in Wolf Run Ramp post rotation. He's in Wolf Run decks around here currently, give wolfrun the juice is needs to beat Delver.
Wolf run post rotation? You do realize that more than 60% of wolf ramp cards are going away right?
{primeval Titan}
{spheres of the sun}
{ink moth nexus}
{glimmer post}
{thrun the last troll}
{solemn simulacrum}
{slag storm}
{inferno Titan} some have it
{rampant growth}
{galvanic blast} easily replaced
{green suns zenith}
{whipflare} SB
{beast within} SB
{combust} SB
I just don't think it will be an archetype, if it is, it won't be nearly as good as the scars version.
we'd have to wait till gate crash to revitalize it (gruul guild anyone?)
Quote from: scarsabrex on July 22, 2012, 05:04:27 PM
we'd have to wait till gate crash to revitalize it (gruul guild anyone?)
Thats fair to say unless a new mana dork is made in RtR.
If birds are not in rtr it will be annoying. Although with the new fetchland and the {Arbor Elf}, shock lands will make both do somewhat what a bird can do.
Is "Gate Crash" the official name of the 2nd R2R block? Interesting implications. Is the 3rd part named yet?
I wonder when the spoilers will start. I'm actually gonna have to pay attention to this one.
But I digress.
Perhaps a new form of birds will appear?
How relevant is turbofog in other formats?
Quote from: Richardalcala on July 22, 2012, 05:28:08 PM
How relevant is fog in other formats?
Other than what? Standard?
It's ok. It's not going to be a tier 1 deck. It's fun to play, that's about all.
Quote from: Gorzo on July 22, 2012, 05:30:28 PM
Quote from: Richardalcala on July 22, 2012, 05:28:08 PM
How relevant is fog in other formats?
Other than what? Standard?
No Pokemon. LOL yes standard the title is FNM.
Quote from: KangaRod on July 22, 2012, 05:50:24 PM
{birds of paradise} for sure will be in RtR, and the shock lands won't have the basic land type keyword.
What makes them more special than the Inniatrad or Core duals? If its not on the other duals they've printed since Ravnca, and cannot see them having it this time.
Interesting prediction. Correct me if I'm wrong though, but isn't the fact that they have the corresponding land types what makes shock lands, well...good? What's the point of bringing them back if you can just use M13 lands that come in untapped most of the time? Is 2 life worth an untapped land that you can't fetch?
{steam vents}... what's that {farseek} can search that? the end.
Quote from: Richardalcala on July 22, 2012, 05:56:03 PM
Quote from: Gorzo on July 22, 2012, 05:30:28 PM
Quote from: Richardalcala on July 22, 2012, 05:28:08 PM
How relevant is fog in other formats?
Other than what? Standard?
No Pokemon. LOL yes standard the title is FNM.
Fog will always dominate pikachus. Always.
Had to make sure, FNM doesn't mean Standard. Some FNMs do drafts, legacy, I've even done 2-headed giant at an FNM.
That being said, I don't know enough about legacy/vintage to say anything about how fog plays in those formats. But it's great in limited and standard for sure!
Quote from: scarsabrex on July 22, 2012, 05:58:05 PM
{steam vents}... what's that {farseek} can search that? the end.
That's what I'm saying - but if they reprint it without it being an island and mountain as suggested...is it worth it? {Sulfer Falls} would seem more appealing in that case. Granted, you could run both and 8 duals...
... it would have the land types though...
Quote from: scarsabrex on July 22, 2012, 06:05:44 PM
... it would have the land types though...
Only if they reprint the same exact lands, and don't just make new shock lands without the land types as kanga is suggesting.
If it does happen that way, there will be a lot of sad pandas.
... to make farseek and {rangers path} actually have a point.
Quote from: scarsabrex on July 22, 2012, 06:09:21 PM
... to make farseek and {rangers path} actually have a point.
Haha ideally yes, and I do hope they reprint the originals, but it does sound like something R&D would do
Quote from: Gorzo on July 22, 2012, 06:11:36 PM
Quote from: scarsabrex on July 22, 2012, 06:09:21 PM
... to make farseek and {rangers path} actually have a point.
Haha ideally yes, and I do hope they reprint the originals, but it does sound like something R&D would do
If R&D does that, they will have
A LOT of angry magic players and probably lose sales. Why would they want that?
so you're saying they intentionally get rid of {rampant growth} just to mess with us?
Quote from: Willthomjr on July 22, 2012, 04:59:40 PM
Quote from: Dudecore on July 22, 2012, 04:49:27 PM
{Thragtusk} will be in Wolf Run Ramp post rotation. He's in Wolf Run decks around here currently, give wolfrun the juice is needs to beat Delver.
Wolf run post rotation? You do realize that more than 60% of wolf ramp cards are going away right?
{primeval Titan}
{spheres of the sun}
{ink moth nexus}
{glimmer post}
{thrun the last troll}
{solemn simulacrum}
{slag storm}
{inferno Titan} some have it
{rampant growth}
{galvanic blast} easily replaced
{green suns zenith}
{whipflare} SB
{beast within} SB
{combust} SB
I just don't think it will be an archetype, if it is, it won't be nearly as good as the scars version.
We haven't seen any Gruul cards from RtR, and {Kessig Wolf Run} will be a good card in the future, as much as it is now.
And rotation aside, {Thragtusk} is already beating Delver.
gruul is in gatecrash.
Kessig wolf run isn't that great of a card anyways. Most wolf ramp players would rather grab ink moth first and it's main purpose in the deck is to pump inkmoth for an additional way to win.
I just don't see it being a tier 1 deck post rotation. I'd love to see it stick around.
... why do you keep saying basic land keywords? forest mountain island mountain and swamp are all types not keywords.
type... land type, just like creature type, or enchantment and artifact types.
Land type of basic land type refers to Plains, Island, yadda yadda. We knew what you meant.
the drawback to shocklands is the shock? what else?
Quote from: KangaRod on July 22, 2012, 07:29:59 PM
Sorry, perhaps English is not your first language...
There is a cycle of dual lands in every block.
There produce two colors of mana.
They are usually considered non-basic lands, without basic land types of them.
What logical reason would they make the Ravnica duals different than every other dual land cycle for the last 6 or 7 years, as well as every other dual land cycle for the ten years before that.
It's possible I am wrong, but I just don't think it makes sense for them from a design perspective to change their pattern. Mechanic has to trump flavor or the game becomes broken.
ok my answer is they are not broken. fastlands from scars are not broken. coreset duals and innistra duals are not broken. zendikar refuges are not broken, shard lands are not broken, search lands are only broken WITH dual types lands. and even then you are losing card variety (arguably a good thing if looking for consistency) and taking a bolt to the face with shock lands.
Reprinting shocklands would allow greater creativity and support of modern since the prefered lands would be more accessible to the masses.
As for standard with how heavy aggro is right now taking the shock woul be a serious question as two shocks would put aggro in a winning position. Currently aggro is extremely powerful and encourages early damage.
I hope we get dual SUBTYPEd lands that are not the shocklands, but this would resituate the powerhouses of modern in such a dramatic way that R & D might not be willing to step out that far this early after the sanctioning of modern.
Hope that helps
then now we're arguing what levels of broken we're okay with reprinting which is a contest of opinion.
They're not broken. Original dual lands are broken. The problem is people confusing how playable the shock lands are, and comparing them to unplayable other dual lands.
Being able to search them was one of their key points, if they just have "land" card type then it'd be somewhat inferior to tap lands.
Quote from: Dudecore on July 22, 2012, 08:04:22 PM
They're not broken. Original dual lands are broken. The problem is people confusing how playable the shock lands are, and comparing them to unplayable other dual lands.
Being able to search them was one of their key points, if they just have "land" card type then it'd be somewhat inferior to tap lands.
. that's not one of the key points it's the only reason people like them. You can get them with the zendikar fetch lands for modern. Other than that they aren't used much outside modern to my knowledge.
that's because the only larger formats have the actual dual lands, where you don't take a bolt to the face.
Quote from: scarsabrex on July 22, 2012, 08:11:32 PM
that's because the only larger formats have the actual dual lands, where you don't take a bolt to the face.
Right. The original dual lands that wont ever see reprint 😢
New shock Lands will work great with The new Lily, letting you splash a second color without losing her utility. I know she's no powerhouse, but if you can use her well in a non-mono{B} deck she gets better.
figured that one out.