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Decks (Magic The Gathering) => Standard => Topic started by: darkarts981 on June 03, 2012, 08:56:04 PM

Title: Banned List Rumors
Post by: darkarts981 on June 03, 2012, 08:56:04 PM
Has anyone else heard about the standard banning that's happening soon?
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: GoJuDragon on June 03, 2012, 09:01:51 PM
I heard (not sure if it's true tho) that snappy might get banned. Sorry if that's not true guys, just something I heard. Oh, and sorry bout any spellin mistakes
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: loop-s-pool on June 03, 2012, 09:02:21 PM
No please do tell.
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Elementz187 on June 03, 2012, 09:13:26 PM
I couldn't see why they would ban snap he isn't very hard to deal with.
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: darkarts981 on June 03, 2012, 09:29:13 PM
Quote from: Elementz187 on June 03, 2012, 09:13:26 PM
I couldn't see why they would ban snap he isn't very hard to deal with.
I think they will, most likely along with delver too! I would also not be surprised if huntmaster saw banning
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: MetalMadMan on June 03, 2012, 09:32:39 PM
Quote from: darkarts981 on June 03, 2012, 09:29:13 PM
Quote from: Elementz187 on June 03, 2012, 09:13:26 PM
I couldn't see why they would ban snap he isn't very hard to deal with.
I think they will, most likely along with delver too! I would also not be surprised if huntmaster saw banning

Yea I heard snappy is being banned also
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Elementz187 on June 03, 2012, 09:35:39 PM
Eh there both so easy to deal with though just people complaining about non sense I suppose
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: darkarts981 on June 03, 2012, 09:37:43 PM
Quote from: Elementz187 on June 03, 2012, 09:35:39 PM
Eh there both so easy to deal with though just people complaining about non sense I suppose
It's not complaints that gets stuff banned! It's about how many top tournament decks it shoes up in, how many times the same deck playing it makes top four at a pro tournament and other things that I don't know!
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Elementz187 on June 03, 2012, 09:40:27 PM
Yeah but take into consideration how many other decks beat those delver decks.. I've smashed delver decks with my wolf run green
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Greg54js on June 03, 2012, 10:07:15 PM
If anything they're banning snappy because his ability is op on a 2 drop flashy thing. Delver would get banned because he's just too good
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Alias1998 on June 03, 2012, 10:11:42 PM
Banning doesnt happen like that. It took them forever to ban jace and stoneforge and Caw Blade was way better than Delver is.
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Greg54js on June 03, 2012, 10:14:45 PM
Quote from: Alias1998 on June 03, 2012, 10:11:42 PM
Banning doesnt happen like that. It took them forever to ban jace and stoneforge and Caw Blade was way better than Delver is.

No I know but I remember reading something about the possibility of the banning of snappy and that was the reason R&D gave.

(Or something along those lines)
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Sagemaster on June 03, 2012, 10:14:50 PM
I wanna test my deck against a delver deck... They generally have 5 mana max so sideboarding in my Thalia's I think helps deal with them and snappys ability to an extent...they shouldn't be banned though.. People are playing more of them over WRR cause it's faster that's why we don't see more WRR or Nayapod or home brews, people wanna win too much and really fast which is why we don't see other great decks up there...thats my opinion anyway
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: loop-s-pool on June 03, 2012, 10:16:33 PM
Snapcaster doesn't break the game at all. Good? Yes. Groundbreaking? No. Delver on the other hand is unparalleled when it comes to power. Of course to get the most out of him you have to build a deck around him, but 9 times out of 10 he does exactly what you want him to the second go around.
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Elementz187 on June 03, 2012, 10:18:07 PM
Delver is alright if he gets flipped right away but not a big threat. I could see snap and counterspell being rough if it does get reprinted but still manageable
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Greg54js on June 03, 2012, 10:19:47 PM
Quote from: Sagemaster on June 03, 2012, 10:14:50 PM
People are playing more of them over WRR cause it's faster that's why we don't see more WRR or Nayapod or home brews, people wanna win too much and really fast which is why we don't see other great decks up there...thats my opinion anyway

Sagemaster you are completely correct. People are so interested in winning they don't care about creating their own winning brews  they'd rather have someone give them a decklist proven to win and spend money to win money. It's a very bad cycle
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Kuberr on June 03, 2012, 10:20:27 PM
They're banning mana leak!!!!!! Yay!!!!
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Greg54js on June 03, 2012, 10:22:00 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 03, 2012, 10:20:27 PM
They're banning mana leak!!!!!! Yay!!!!

Haha I'm pretty sure it's just rotating. Not being banned XD
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: K-RO on June 03, 2012, 10:22:08 PM
Quote from: loop-s-pool on June 03, 2012, 10:16:33 PM
Snapcaster doesn't break the game at all. Good? Yes. Groundbreaking? No. Delver on the other hand is unparalleled when it comes to power. Of course to get the most out of him you have to build a deck around him, but 9 times out of 10 he does exactly what you want him to the second go around.

I have to disagree when it comes to delver, he's not as great in my opium because you can burn him, o ring him, arrest him, ice cage him. It's only if the deck is completely built around him that poses a threat. Yet he's preventable and stoppable. In my opinion he's overrated.
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Kuberr on June 03, 2012, 10:24:42 PM
Quote from: Greg54js on June 03, 2012, 10:22:00 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 03, 2012, 10:20:27 PM
They're banning mana leak!!!!!! Yay!!!!

Haha I'm pretty sure it's just rotating. Not being banned XD

You wish.
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Elementz187 on June 03, 2012, 10:25:54 PM
Quote from: K-RO on June 03, 2012, 10:22:08 PM
Quote from: loop-s-pool on June 03, 2012, 10:16:33 PM
Snapcaster doesn't break the game at all. Good? Yes. Groundbreaking? No. Delver on the other hand is unparalleled when it comes to power. Of course to get the most out of him you have to build a deck around him, but 9 times out of 10 he does exactly what you want him to the second go around.

I have to disagree when it comes to delver, he's not as great in my opium because you can burn him, o ring him, arrest him, ice cage him. It's only if the deck is completely built around him that poses a threat. Yet he's preventable and stoppable. In my opinion he's overrated.
thank you I completely agree with you..
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: loop-s-pool on June 03, 2012, 10:27:04 PM
Quote from: K-RO on June 03, 2012, 10:22:08 PM
Quote from: loop-s-pool on June 03, 2012, 10:16:33 PM
Snapcaster doesn't break the game at all. Good? Yes. Groundbreaking? No. Delver on the other hand is unparalleled when it comes to power. Of course to get the most out of him you have to build a deck around him, but 9 times out of 10 he does exactly what you want him to the second go around.

I have to disagree when it comes to delver, he's not as great in my opium because you can burn him, o ring him, arrest him, ice cage him. It's only if the deck is completely built around him that poses a threat. Yet he's preventable and stoppable. In my opinion he's overrated.
The thing about that though is that they'll slap on a Sword giving it protection, use countermagic, or bring him back using {Vapor Snag}
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: K-RO on June 03, 2012, 10:31:15 PM
Quote from: loop-s-pool on June 03, 2012, 10:27:04 PM
Quote from: K-RO on June 03, 2012, 10:22:08 PM
Quote from: loop-s-pool on June 03, 2012, 10:16:33 PM
Snapcaster doesn't break the game at all. Good? Yes. Groundbreaking? No. Delver on the other hand is unparalleled when it comes to power. Of course to get the most out of him you have to build a deck around him, but 9 times out of 10 he does exactly what you want him to the second go around.

I have to disagree when it comes to delver, he's not as great in my opium because you can burn him, o ring him, arrest him, ice cage him. It's only if the deck is completely built around him that poses a threat. Yet he's preventable and stoppable. In my opinion he's overrated.
The thing about that though is that they'll slap on a Sword giving it protection, use countermagic, or bring him back using {Vapor Snag}

Swords do pose a threat and yes countermagic can be done but what's delver decks usually? Control and runchanters pike. Grand abolished then o ring, the green veil card, all can be in a side board to prevent counters on your turn. Still allows delver dealings
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Greg54js on June 03, 2012, 10:31:23 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 03, 2012, 10:24:42 PM
Quote from: Greg54js on June 03, 2012, 10:22:00 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 03, 2012, 10:20:27 PM
They're banning mana leak!!!!!! Yay!!!!

Haha I'm pretty sure it's just rotating. Not being banned XD

You wish.

No I'm pretty sure that's what's happening
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: smokin terry on June 03, 2012, 10:32:34 PM
Quote from: Alias1998 on June 03, 2012, 10:11:42 PM
Banning doesnt happen like that. It took them forever to ban jace and stoneforge and Caw Blade was way better than Delver is.

It took them 3 blades to ban jace and stone forge and now rumors of shutting down another deck... They need to ban the stupid blades that are in every single deck that any one has $20 for just one of the cheapest decks.
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Prophylaxis on June 03, 2012, 10:32:39 PM
The important thing to realize is when the attendance numbers for FNM, Game Day, etc, start dropping.

When that happen, bannings happen.

Wizards doesn't care until the attendance numbers drop.
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Kuberr on June 03, 2012, 10:32:56 PM
Quote from: Greg54js on June 03, 2012, 10:31:23 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 03, 2012, 10:24:42 PM
Quote from: Greg54js on June 03, 2012, 10:22:00 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 03, 2012, 10:20:27 PM
They're banning mana leak!!!!!! Yay!!!!

Haha I'm pretty sure it's just rotating. Not being banned XD

You wish.

No I'm pretty sure that's what's happening

Okay guy, Rotating out ad banning is the same for me because it won't be in standard. That's what matters.
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Greg54js on June 03, 2012, 10:36:42 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 03, 2012, 10:32:56 PM
Quote from: Greg54js on June 03, 2012, 10:31:23 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 03, 2012, 10:24:42 PM
Quote from: Greg54js on June 03, 2012, 10:22:00 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 03, 2012, 10:20:27 PM
They're banning mana leak!!!!!! Yay!!!!

Haha I'm pretty sure it's just rotating. Not being banned XD

You wish.

No I'm pretty sure that's what's happening

Okay guy, Rotating out ad banning is the same for me because it won't be in standard. That's what matters.

Lol okay kuberr you could've just said that in the first place 
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Kuberr on June 03, 2012, 10:39:00 PM
Omg I love tht face you make. It is so amazing.  Lmao.

But are they banning anything else decent?
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: loop-s-pool on June 03, 2012, 10:42:41 PM
Quote from: K-RO on June 03, 2012, 10:31:15 PM
Quote from: loop-s-pool on June 03, 2012, 10:27:04 PM
Quote from: K-RO on June 03, 2012, 10:22:08 PM
Quote from: loop-s-pool on June 03, 2012, 10:16:33 PM
Snapcaster doesn't break the game at all. Good? Yes. Groundbreaking? No. Delver on the other hand is unparalleled when it comes to power. Of course to get the most out of him you have to build a deck around him, but 9 times out of 10 he does exactly what you want him to the second go around.

I have to disagree when it comes to delver, he's not as great in my opium because you can burn him, o ring him, arrest him, ice cage him. It's only if the deck is completely built around him that poses a threat. Yet he's preventable and stoppable. In my opinion he's overrated.
The thing about that though is that they'll slap on a Sword giving it protection, use countermagic, or bring him back using {Vapor Snag}

Swords do pose a threat and yes countermagic can be done but what's delver decks usually? Control and runchanters pike. Grand abolished then o ring, the green veil card, all can be in a side board to prevent counters on your turn. Still allows delver dealings
The thing about Delver is that he is unparalled (at least in standard) as to how fast he is. Say you want to do the same thing 3 permanent damage by turn 2. You'd have to play a mountain, memnite, and {Kuldotha Rebirth}. Not only do you not have to sacrifice a card, Delver has flying.

Correct me if I am wrong but Delver is the fastest 3 steady ({Vexing Devil} doesn't count) damage you can get turn 2 without another card being casted.
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Greg54js on June 03, 2012, 10:50:03 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 03, 2012, 10:39:00 PM
Omg I love tht face you make. It is so amazing.  Lmao.

But are they banning anything else decent?
Who knows.. Until they release an actual list we're only guessing 
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: TBNL on June 03, 2012, 10:52:46 PM
Quote from: loop-s-pool on June 03, 2012, 10:42:41 PM
Quote from: K-RO on June 03, 2012, 10:31:15 PM
Quote from: loop-s-pool on June 03, 2012, 10:27:04 PM
Quote from: K-RO on June 03, 2012, 10:22:08 PM
Quote from: loop-s-pool on June 03, 2012, 10:16:33 PM
Snapcaster doesn't break the game at all. Good? Yes. Groundbreaking? No. Delver on the other hand is unparalleled when it comes to power. Of course to get the most out of him you have to build a deck around him, but 9 times out of 10 he does exactly what you want him to the second go around.

I have to disagree when it comes to delver, he's not as great in my opium because you can burn him, o ring him, arrest him, ice cage him. It's only if the deck is completely built around him that poses a threat. Yet he's preventable and stoppable. In my opinion he's overrated.
The thing about that though is that they'll slap on a Sword giving it protection, use countermagic, or bring him back using {Vapor Snag}

Swords do pose a threat and yes countermagic can be done but what's delver decks usually? Control and runchanters pike. Grand abolished then o ring, the green veil card, all can be in a side board to prevent counters on your turn. Still allows delver dealings
The thing about Delver is that he is unparalled (at least in standard) as to how fast he is. Say you want to do the same thing 3 permanent damage by turn 2. You'd have to play a mountain, memnite, and {Kuldotha Rebirth}. Not only do you not have to sacrifice a card, Delver has flying.

Correct me if I am wrong but Delver is the fastest 3 steady ({Vexing Devil} doesn't count) damage you can get turn 2 without another card being casted.
{Champion of the Parish} can do 3 turn 2 as well. But you still have to cast {Gather the Townsfolk}, and it's not flying.
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Runningtables on June 03, 2012, 10:53:52 PM
I heard rumors of ponder getting banned
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: K-RO on June 03, 2012, 10:54:33 PM
Quote from: loop-s-pool on June 03, 2012, 10:42:41 PM
Quote from: K-RO on June 03, 2012, 10:31:15 PM
Quote from: loop-s-pool on June 03, 2012, 10:27:04 PM
Quote from: K-RO on June 03, 2012, 10:22:08 PM
Quote from: loop-s-pool on June 03, 2012, 10:16:33 PM
Snapcaster doesn't break the game at all. Good? Yes. Groundbreaking? No. Delver on the other hand is unparalleled when it comes to power. Of course to get the most out of him you have to build a deck around him, but 9 times out of 10 he does exactly what you want him to the second go around.

I have to disagree when it comes to delver, he's not as great in my opium because you can burn him, o ring him, arrest him, ice cage him. It's only if the deck is completely built around him that poses a threat. Yet he's preventable and stoppable. In my opinion he's overrated.
The thing about that though is that they'll slap on a Sword giving it protection, use countermagic, or bring him back using {Vapor Snag}

Swords do pose a threat and yes countermagic can be done but what's delver decks usually? Control and runchanters pike. Grand abolished then o ring, the green veil card, all can be in a side board to prevent counters on your turn. Still allows delver dealings
The thing about Delver is that he is unparalled (at least in standard) as to how fast he is. Say you want to do the same thing 3 permanent damage by turn 2. You'd have to play a mountain, memnite, and {Kuldotha Rebirth}. Not only do you not have to sacrifice a card, Delver has flying.

Correct me if I am wrong but Delver is the fastest 3 steady ({Vexing Devil} doesn't count) damage you can get turn 2 without another card being casted.
Your right that he is on their turn two, still can be delt with. If you run any red, delver can be delt with.
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Greg54js on June 03, 2012, 10:55:57 PM
Quote from: Runningtables on June 03, 2012, 10:53:52 PM
I heard rumors of ponder getting banned
Define banned. Banned as in rotating or banned as in they're reprinting it and then banning it
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Kuberr on June 03, 2012, 10:57:27 PM
Quote from: Runningtables on June 03, 2012, 10:53:52 PM
I heard rumors of ponder getting banned

I've hear this too.
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Dudecore on June 03, 2012, 11:00:57 PM
You can use {Chancellor of the Forge}, {Infernal Plunge}, {Goblin Chieftan} turn 1. Or {Memnite} + {Kuldotha Rebirth} for some fast dmg. But anyway.

Houston GP proved a lot about Delver. Now {Delver of Secrets}, he can be dealt with, {Ponder} can be dealt with. {Mana Leak} and everything that makes up a Delver deck. The problem is {Snapcaster Mage}. Combine with re-triggering his effect with {Restoration Angel}, getting a Flash, Flying, 3/4 body.

Angel interacts with {Geist of Saint Traft} too, by allowing him to swing. It flash blocks and has Pseudo haste. I think Resto angel secured {Snapcaster Mage} in the ban column.

Edit: the hope is, when Swords rotate Delver will come back to earth. The problem will still remain Snapcaster. Without the swords, Delver may go to the wayside, but Snapcaster will find his way into the next big Aggro Control deck. He's too good not to.
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Greg54js on June 03, 2012, 11:01:02 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 03, 2012, 10:57:27 PM
Quote from: Runningtables on June 03, 2012, 10:53:52 PM
I heard rumors of ponder getting banned

I've hear this too.

Now Kuberr which definition of banned are you using? Lol
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Kuberr on June 03, 2012, 11:08:35 PM
Quote from: Greg54js on June 03, 2012, 11:01:02 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 03, 2012, 10:57:27 PM
Quote from: Runningtables on June 03, 2012, 10:53:52 PM
I heard rumors of ponder getting banned

I've hear this too.

Now Kuberr which definition of banned are you using? Lol

Lmao. I don't usually ask when I hear rumors, for people to define "banning" lol.
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Greg54js on June 03, 2012, 11:11:38 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 03, 2012, 11:08:35 PM
Quote from: Greg54js on June 03, 2012, 11:01:02 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on June 03, 2012, 10:57:27 PM
Quote from: Runningtables on June 03, 2012, 10:53:52 PM
I heard rumors of ponder getting banned

I've hear this too.

Now Kuberr which definition of banned are you using? Lol

Lmao. I don't usually ask when I hear rumors, for people to define "banning" lol.

Well as shown before banning to you means rotating lol 
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Kuberr on June 03, 2012, 11:14:04 PM
Idk though. Ponder is pretty overpowered. I wouldn't doubt if it actually got banned.
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Dudecore on June 03, 2012, 11:19:11 PM
{Ponder} is gonna rotate. Blue will not get anything close to it again. I think WotC is finished with setup cards, they end up banning them all.

Ex. {Brainstorm}, {Preordain}
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Sagemaster on June 03, 2012, 11:27:16 PM
Quote from: Greg54js on June 03, 2012, 10:19:47 PM
Quote from: Sagemaster on June 03, 2012, 10:14:50 PM
People are playing more of them over WRR cause it's faster that's why we don't see more WRR or Nayapod or home brews, people wanna win too much and really fast which is why we don't see other great decks up there...thats my opinion anyway

Sagemaster you are completely correct. People are so interested in winning they don't care about creating their own winning brews  they'd rather have someone give them a decklist proven to win and spend money to win money. It's a very bad cycle
Thanks! :D but I wasn't just saying winning I was saying winning fast WRR is slower then delver so people use delver haha
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Sagemaster on June 03, 2012, 11:29:04 PM
Quote from: Greg54js on June 03, 2012, 10:55:57 PM
Quote from: Runningtables on June 03, 2012, 10:53:52 PM
I heard rumors of ponder getting banned
Define banned. Banned as in rotating or banned as in they're reprinting it and then banning it
I think this is for legacy
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Dudecore on June 03, 2012, 11:33:24 PM
{Ponder} would be silly to ban in Legacy, considering {Brainstorm} and {Preordain} are legal.
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Sagemaster on June 03, 2012, 11:34:30 PM
Quote from: Dudecore on June 03, 2012, 11:33:24 PM
{Ponder} would be silly to ban in Legacy, considering {Brainstorm} and {Preordain} are legal.
Oh then modern?
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Dudecore on June 03, 2012, 11:36:49 PM
Quote from: Sagemaster on June 03, 2012, 11:34:30 PM
Quote from: Dudecore on June 03, 2012, 11:33:24 PM
{Ponder} would be silly to ban in Legacy, considering {Brainstorm} and {Preordain} are legal.
Oh then modern?

Already done :)
Ponder will escape the banning, I just don't foresee the same fate for my buddy {Snapcaster Mage}
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Sagemaster on June 03, 2012, 11:38:34 PM
Quote from: Dudecore on June 03, 2012, 11:36:49 PM
Quote from: Sagemaster on June 03, 2012, 11:34:30 PM
Quote from: Dudecore on June 03, 2012, 11:33:24 PM
{Ponder} would be silly to ban in Legacy, considering {Brainstorm} and {Preordain} are legal.
Oh then modern?

Already done :)
Ponder will escape the banning, I just don't foresee the same fate for my buddy {Snapcaster Mage}
I hope snappy doesn't I haven't gotten to use him but I really like him...I also like the idea of USA flicker control with him to rival delver..
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Dudecore on June 03, 2012, 11:49:26 PM
We find out June 20th. I say it's a lock, people disagree. My reasons:

- M13 drops soon, they want people to use the new cards.
- Banning {Delver of Secrets} means that {Snapcaster Mage} just finds his way into another deck (probably the same one, and {Champion of the Parish} instead)
-With swords rotating out, Delver will probably just give-way anyways.
-With {Ponder} rotating out, {Delver} takes a step back again.
-Going forward, {Snapcaster Mage} is the more dangerous card, as it interacts with pretty much anything.
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: loop-s-pool on June 03, 2012, 11:58:38 PM
Quote from: Dudecore on June 03, 2012, 11:49:26 PM
- Banning {Delver of Secrets} means that {Snapcaster Mage} just finds his way into another deck (probably the same one, and {Champion of the Parish} instead)
Champion is more a creature based card and Delver is an instant and sorcery based card. It would have to be a more creature based deck and thus rendering {Snapcaster Mage} less of a powerful card. Let's look at what Snappy is good for
-{Mana Leak} seeing rotation
-{Ponder} Seeing rotation
-{Vapor Snag} Seeing rotation, although {Ghostly Departure} can be used, oh wait that has flashback

I'm just not seeing much of a reason to ban him if the big threats are gone from his deck.
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: TBNL on June 04, 2012, 12:01:35 AM
Quote from: loop-s-pool on June 03, 2012, 11:58:38 PM
Quote from: Dudecore on June 03, 2012, 11:49:26 PM
- Banning {Delver of Secrets} means that {Snapcaster Mage} just finds his way into another deck (probably the same one, and {Champion of the Parish} instead)
Champion is more a creature based card and Delver is an instant and sorcery based card. It would have to be a more creature based deck and thus rendering {Snapcaster Mage} less of a powerful card. Let's look at what Snappy is good for
-{Mana Leak} seeing rotation
-{Ponder} Seeing rotation
-{Vapor Snag} Seeing rotation, although {Ghostly Departure} can be used, oh wait that has flashback

I'm just not seeing much of a reason to ban him if the big threats are gone from his deck.
Could use {Gather the Townsfolk} with Snappy, less broken, but still good
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: loop-s-pool on June 04, 2012, 12:03:19 AM
Quote from: TBNL on June 04, 2012, 12:01:35 AM
Quote from: loop-s-pool on June 03, 2012, 11:58:38 PM
Quote from: Dudecore on June 03, 2012, 11:49:26 PM
- Banning {Delver of Secrets} means that {Snapcaster Mage} just finds his way into another deck (probably the same one, and {Champion of the Parish} instead)
Champion is more a creature based card and Delver is an instant and sorcery based card. It would have to be a more creature based deck and thus rendering {Snapcaster Mage} less of a powerful card. Let's look at what Snappy is good for
-{Mana Leak} seeing rotation
-{Ponder} Seeing rotation
-{Vapor Snag} Seeing rotation, although {Ghostly Departure} can be used, oh wait that has flashback

I'm just not seeing much of a reason to ban him if the big threats are gone from his deck.
Could use {Gather the Townsfolk} with Snappy, less broken, but still good
Very true. No huge crazy interaction there but still something. Nearly everything played in UW delver is going away though so it doesn't make sense to say no to Snaps
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Leviathan on June 04, 2012, 02:56:16 AM
Funny that people complain about Delver... {Vault Skirge} with a {Furor of the Bitten} is very fierce... I have even dropped 2 {Furor of the Bitten}s on him and swung for 5 flying lifelink turn 2. It bugs me this doesn't see play.
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Tetsomori on June 04, 2012, 03:09:42 AM
Quote from: Leviathan on June 04, 2012, 02:56:16 AM
Funny that people complain about Delver... {Vault Skirge} with a {Furor of the Bitten} is very fierce... I have even dropped 2 {Furor of the Bitten}s on him and swung for 5 flying lifelink turn 2. It bugs me this doesn't see play.

3 cards.. And delver is 1.. So your 3 card combo is broken with a {vapor snag} doesnt seem very good imo. The prob is snapcaster and delver just have too much power in the format imo
I agree i think they need banning
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Sagemaster on June 04, 2012, 05:45:41 AM
Quote from: Tetsomori on June 04, 2012, 03:09:42 AM
Quote from: Leviathan on June 04, 2012, 02:56:16 AM
Funny that people complain about Delver... {Vault Skirge} with a {Furor of the Bitten} is very fierce... I have even dropped 2 {Furor of the Bitten}s on him and swung for 5 flying lifelink turn 2. It bugs me this doesn't see play.

3 cards.. And delver is 1.. So your 3 card combo is broken with a {vapor snag} doesnt seem very good imo. The prob is snapcaster and delver just have too much power in the format imo
I agree i think they need banning
But the format is about to completely change...just as it did when cawblade rotated..
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Thorn on June 04, 2012, 08:02:57 AM
Quote from: loop-s-pool on June 03, 2012, 10:42:41 PM
Quote from: K-RO on June 03, 2012, 10:31:15 PM
Quote from: loop-s-pool on June 03, 2012, 10:27:04 PM
Quote from: K-RO on June 03, 2012, 10:22:08 PM
Quote from: loop-s-pool on June 03, 2012, 10:16:33 PM
Snapcaster doesn't break the game at all. Good? Yes. Groundbreaking? No. Delver on the other hand is unparalleled when it comes to power. Of course to get the most out of him you have to build a deck around him, but 9 times out of 10 he does exactly what you want him to the second go around.

I have to disagree when it comes to delver, he's not as great in my opium because you can burn him, o ring him, arrest him, ice cage him. It's only if the deck is completely built around him that poses a threat. Yet he's preventable and stoppable. In my opinion he's overrated.
The thing about that though is that they'll slap on a Sword giving it protection, use countermagic, or bring him back using {Vapor Snag}

Swords do pose a threat and yes countermagic can be done but what's delver decks usually? Control and runchanters pike. Grand abolished then o ring, the green veil card, all can be in a side board to prevent counters on your turn. Still allows delver dealings
The thing about Delver is that he is unparalled (at least in standard) as to how fast he is. Say you want to do the same thing 3 permanent damage by turn 2. You'd have to play a mountain, memnite, and {Kuldotha Rebirth}. Not only do you not have to sacrifice a card, Delver has flying.

Correct me if I am wrong but Delver is the fastest 3 steady ({Vexing Devil} doesn't count) damage you can get turn 2 without another card being casted.
{Reckless Waif} This card is nearly as fast as delver.
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Dudecore on June 04, 2012, 10:50:05 AM
People much smarter then me with create the next decks, but I'm certain Delver wouldn't be the last we see from {Snapcaster Mage}.

If there was anyone to ban, it wouldn't be {Delver of Secrets}. He's gonna get nerfed hard when rotation comes. {Snapcaster} is viable as long as Instants and Sorceries exist.
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: darkarts981 on June 04, 2012, 10:57:17 AM
Quote from: Dudecore on June 04, 2012, 10:50:05 AM
People much smarter then me with create the next decks, but I'm certain Delver wouldn't be the last we see from {Snapcaster Mage}.

If there was anyone to ban, it wouldn't be {Delver of Secrets}. He's gonna get nerfed hard when rotation comes. {Snapcaster} is viable as long as Instants and Sorceries exist.
Exactly, which is why it will most likely see banning
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Greg54js on June 04, 2012, 11:04:45 AM
Quote from: darkarts981 on June 04, 2012, 10:57:17 AM
Quote from: Dudecore on June 04, 2012, 10:50:05 AM
People much smarter then me with create the next decks, but I'm certain Delver wouldn't be the last we see from {Snapcaster Mage}.

If there was anyone to ban, it wouldn't be {Delver of Secrets}. He's gonna get nerfed hard when rotation comes. {Snapcaster} is viable as long as Instants and Sorceries exist.
Exactly, which is why it will most likely see banning
WOOHOO!! 
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: darkarts981 on June 04, 2012, 02:50:03 PM
Quote from: Greg54js on June 04, 2012, 11:04:45 AM
Quote from: darkarts981 on June 04, 2012, 10:57:17 AM
Quote from: Dudecore on June 04, 2012, 10:50:05 AM
People much smarter then me with create the next decks, but I'm certain Delver wouldn't be the last we see from {Snapcaster Mage}.

If there was anyone to ban, it wouldn't be {Delver of Secrets}. He's gonna get nerfed hard when rotation comes. {Snapcaster} is viable as long as Instants and Sorceries exist.
Exactly, which is why it will most likely see banning
WOOHOO!! 
For me that's good and bad, I play him a lot, but he is also in decks that kill most of mine (except the ones I play him in). Also if he gets banned, other cards will see banning as well, otherwise decks like WRR and RG Aggro will just run rampant
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: GoJuDragon on June 04, 2012, 02:53:12 PM
Was at my local shop today and I herd sum1 say "I herd that huntsmaster, and kessig wolf run might get banned"
Now I could possibly see huntsmaster get banned, but wolf run??? I doubt it
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: darkarts981 on June 04, 2012, 03:07:35 PM
Quote from: GoJuDragon on June 04, 2012, 02:53:12 PM
Was at my local shop today and I herd sum1 say "I herd that huntsmaster, and kessig wolf run might get banned"
Now I could possibly see huntsmaster get banned, but wolf run??? I doubt it
Not wolf run, huntmaster is likely though
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Clearmario on June 04, 2012, 03:27:08 PM
What day does the ban list come out?
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: darkarts981 on June 04, 2012, 03:33:47 PM
Quote from: Clearmario on June 04, 2012, 03:27:08 PM
What day does the ban list come out?
Either June 20, or the 22nd
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Kuberr on June 04, 2012, 03:35:27 PM
Quote from: darkarts981 on June 04, 2012, 03:33:47 PM
Quote from: Clearmario on June 04, 2012, 03:27:08 PM
What day does the ban list come out?
Either June 20, or the 22nd

I had heard June 20th as well.
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Sagemaster on June 04, 2012, 03:47:20 PM
I talked to my shopkeeper today it's the 20th for the list
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Harmon74 on June 04, 2012, 04:01:04 PM
I don't understand why they ban in standard.  The cards rotate out anyways.  Why not just not reprint, and let them rotate out?
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Sagemaster on June 04, 2012, 04:03:17 PM
Quote from: Harmon74 on June 04, 2012, 04:01:04 PM
I don't understand why they ban in standard.  The cards rotate out anyways.  Why not just not reprint, and let them rotate out?
Cause they don't understand that concept...if they're gonna ban the should do it after RTR is released to see if snappy is still consistently in the top
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: BlackJester on June 04, 2012, 04:40:59 PM
Quote from: Harmon74 on June 04, 2012, 04:01:04 PM
I don't understand why they ban in standard.  The cards rotate out anyways.  Why not just not reprint, and let them rotate out?
With so many people playing Standard, 6 months of brokenness can discourage a lot of players.  Especially new ones.
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Tetsomori on June 04, 2012, 05:00:10 PM
Yeah ive thought about quiting due to uw delver
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Poof on June 04, 2012, 05:16:19 PM
I don't understand huntmaster it's not like it's dominating or even being played as much as it was when it came out
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Dudecore on June 04, 2012, 06:53:20 PM
I don't see a Huntmaster banning happening. He isn't destroying the fun of everyone the way {Snapcaster Mage} is
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Harmon74 on June 04, 2012, 06:59:09 PM
Quote from: Dudecore on June 04, 2012, 06:53:20 PM
I don't see a Huntmaster banning happening. He isn't destroying the fun of everyone the way {Snapcaster Mage} is
Guess you're not running {snapcaster Mage}?  Because I run them, and they are a whole lot of fun!  Lol! 
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Harmon74 on June 04, 2012, 07:06:26 PM
Quote from: Tetsomori on June 04, 2012, 05:00:10 PM
Yeah ive thought about quiting due to uw delver
I run U/R Delver.  I whooped up on uw Delver, but I got crushed by Titan decks.  I don't see why you'd quit because of a deck.  Makes no sense to me.  Make a deck that can beat uw Delver.  Don't quit because you lose.
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: CajunJynx on June 04, 2012, 07:14:39 PM
I have stopped going my fnm's because every deck is either delver or tokens. My burn deck is still sitting on an almost perfect record, but it's boring playing the same decks.
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Dudecore on June 04, 2012, 07:43:34 PM
I actually do pilot at U/W Delver deck. It's tons of fun to play
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: smokin terry on June 04, 2012, 09:27:12 PM
The only cards that need to be on the ban list are the swords. They are the cards that have made the top teir one deck so over powered and over played. They are in every deck that has more then 0 creatures that the builder has the money for. Delver, kessig, caw blade all use/used multipul swords. They made stone forge amazing, delver better then deceint (that is all I see it as) and kessig had them just cause. Tezz control. I'm sure that some one has tried them in kuldotha red. They are in every top UW, GW, BU, BW, any mono colored deck, or any deck at all. Their said reasoning behind the banning of jace was he was way to over used. Stone forge, to over powered? Because of the blades. Jace was only in decks that ran blue. They need to do what they should have done with jace and stone forge, wait for them to rotate out.
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Tetsomori on June 04, 2012, 11:41:02 PM
I hate uw delver i go to fnm and play uw delver in 3 of 4 matches. Its not fun at all. I can build rw humans and destroy delver but its not fun at all anymore.
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: cltrn81 on June 05, 2012, 10:20:49 AM
People need to understand there is a difference from banning and rotating.  When the new sets come out you can say bye bye to anything before Innistrad.....as they will rotate.  The stuff that will be banned is going to be in the Innistrad block only.  I could be wrong but this is what makes the most sense.
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: DirtyMustachio on June 05, 2012, 11:34:50 AM
Well does anyone have anything official about bans...
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Willthomjr on June 05, 2012, 11:36:16 AM
Quote from: DirtyMustachio on June 05, 2012, 11:34:50 AM
Well does anyone have anything official about bans...

This is a rumor thread.

It was posted a couple pages back June 20th is when the list comes out.:P
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: DirtyMustachio on June 05, 2012, 11:49:00 AM
Yeah, and if there are bans, then it's going to be allll tokens then...
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Ace on June 05, 2012, 01:16:25 PM
I really don't see why they would ban snap or delver. While yes both are good cards, they are not over powered. I would have to agree that swords should be banned, but they r rotating out so it's not a big issue. I don't really think anything from the innistrad block should be banned. Once the scars block goes away the decks should even out alot more and also should open it up for people to bring new creative deck to the feild. No more swords and no more titans! That is a good day.
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Willthomjr on June 05, 2012, 02:54:52 PM
Quote from: Rtace88 on June 05, 2012, 01:16:25 PM
I really don't see why they would ban snap or delver. While yes both are good cards, they are not over powered. I would have to agree that swords should be banned, but they r rotating out so it's not a big issue. I don't really think anything from the innistrad block should be banned. Once the scars block goes away the decks should even out alot more and also should open it up for people to bring new creative deck to the feild. No more swords and no more titans! That is a good day.

This. I like all of the etb effects but its a lot for wolf run to ramp a Titan t4-5 bring in 2 more lands (whatever) and quickly get out of hand for whoever isn't playing some sort of spot removal.
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: smokin terry on June 05, 2012, 09:42:14 PM
Quote from: cltrn81 on June 05, 2012, 10:20:49 AM
People need to understand there is a difference from banning and rotating.  When the new sets come out you can say bye bye to anything before Innistrad.....as they will rotate.  The stuff that will be banned is going to be in the Innistrad block only.  I could be wrong but this is what makes the most sense.

They banned jace and stone forge a few months before they would have rotated.
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Kaleo42 on June 05, 2012, 10:18:30 PM
As some one with a very extensive standard legal card pool i can say swords arent worth all this hate. They are only good against people who complain about them or dont draw the answer. There are easy ways to deal with the swords and if youre having issues against them contact people who are winning without them and find out how they are doing it. I have to play in fnms with 10-15 people who can build whatever deck they feel like within a week or so, about half use swords regularly and there for people play answers for them and level the playing field as with any other dangerous theme in the meta.
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Dudecore on June 06, 2012, 06:01:46 AM
{Snapcaster Mage} also "messes up" design too, for R&D. They tried hosing him 3 times ({Grafdigger's Cage}, {Cavern of Souls}, ???? I know there is another, drawing a blank). I don't know how long R&D wants to keep trying to marginalize him.

Still, Delvers power is gonna rotate out, and Snapcaster will still be rediculous going forward. He will make the next decks that splash blue, insane.

Delver minus Snapcaster (but with {Ponder}) isnt nearly as deadly as Snapcasters ability to flashback {vapor snag}, {mana leak}, {ponder}, {timely reenforcemenfs}, {midnight haunting}, so on and so forth.

M13 has a Snapcaster replacement (Archaeomancer), which is 4CMC, which is probably where it should be. A ban is nigh

Edit: and if you think about it, WotC is done selling Innistrad, Snapcaster doesn't rotate out for 1 year+, his power level is already FAR above the curve. At this point, they owe absolutely nothing to {Snapcaster Mage}. They sold all the boxes they could, and it's onto the next product (M13, RtR}
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Sagemaster on June 06, 2012, 10:08:25 AM
So do they create cards like snappy to ban them only after they've sold.a ton?
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Blackyzilla on June 06, 2012, 10:39:25 AM
IMO swords aren't problem as every deck uses them making all around good plus every set has printed destruction for them. The problem is cards like ponder, snap caster, and Geist
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Kaleo42 on June 06, 2012, 11:09:02 AM
Quote from: Blackyzilla on June 06, 2012, 10:39:25 AM
IMO swords aren't problem as every deck uses them making all around good plus every set has printed destruction for them. The problem is cards like ponder, snap caster, and Geist
Exactly, but bluse has to have something to keep older players in after they tried so hard to open up the possibility of non blue non weenie decks winning tournies.
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Thorn on June 06, 2012, 11:41:26 AM
Personnaly I do not think Delver will get banned at all. With (on average) only a 33% chance of flipping it is unlikely that he will pose a real threat immeadiately. One of my friends has a R/U Delver, {Invisible Stalker}, {Runechanters Pike} deck and he only wins because of the Stalker. I always no matter what deck I'm playing with kill the Delver before it does anything. That's why it is only a common. If they ban {Delver of Secrets} I'll be mad because MTG is losing a cool card.
Delver should not be banned.
Title: Re: Banned List Rumors
Post by: Dudecore on June 06, 2012, 01:24:33 PM
Quote from: Sagemaster on June 06, 2012, 10:08:25 AM
So do they create cards like snappy to ban them only after they've sold.a ton?

Well, I'm not a conspiracy theory guy...but they play tested with him for a long time. Also, they admitted that as the trucks rolled out that they made a "huge mistake".

Do I think they knew they did it? I would say they knew it. In the past commons have been banned, and that is a mistake from design. Now it's rares ({Stoneforge Mystic},{Jace, the Mind Sculptor}).

I know that WotC is a business, and they love designing cards that players have a great time with, and {Snapcaster Mage} is a fun. They try to add MUST HAVE cards to every set. It's strange how this sets must have card ({Cavern of Souls}) is an attempted hoser for a previous card.